Pride, The Original Sin

[Jaycekun]

Pride, The Original Sin

Hello everybody! I'm making a commander deck for each of the 7 deadly sins: Gluttony's food tokens, Slothful's stun counters, Envy's playing other people's cards, Wrath's goud and fight machanics, Lust's sirens with hug cards, Greed's treasure tokens, and Pride's aristocratic game play. I'm trying to make the most OP Teysa, Karlov deck possible for Pride. I have played this deck against my friends quite a bit and it definitely gives them a headache so I'm confident that it works just fine. In fact it works super well.

I was wondering:

     if I should replace any of my sac outlets in the deck since that's a big part of how I get my commander involved.

      How I could compensate for not having any 'fight' cards in this deck. I do heave death touch guys but it is really annoying that I cant force them onto other creatures since I can't run any green cards.

     besides mana tithe, hexproof, shroud, and grand abolisher what are other ways to counter my opponents spells?

     I want to keep my deck as well rounded and diverse as possible while still sticking to my guns. This means I want all of my individual cards to function as viable threats that just get amplified by my commander.



Thank you in advanced!

[Fuzzy2Wasy]

I love the concept of 7 "deadly sin" decks.  Very creative.  I think most people on this site would recommend when you put decks up for review/questions/advice, use the "GROUP CARDS BY" dropdown in the upper right corner of your deck to give a better sorting instead of just 100 cards in alphabetical order.  Custom Sections is best for a complex deck to show what you are trying to achieve with specific cards, but at the very least you should sort by type - extended to separate out your card types for easy digestion. 

I would like to mention, be careful with Shroud.  I'm sure you know but it can sometimes backfire.  If your sac outlet targets a creature, and it has shroud, you can't target even your own stuff. 
Also, the card Lifeline, I have never seen it played.  Maybe you have some amazing combo with it I am clueless about, but this is another danger card.  It is a symmetrical effect, so all players get to use it.

OK, on to your actual question:
When you say "fight" I think what you are getting at is removal, in general?  Black and White actually have the BEST removal options in MTG, so this shouldn't be of any concern.

Targeted spells like Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Anguished Unmaking, Despark, Generous Gift (which can hit any permanent, even lands), Feed the Swarm, Defile, Infernal Grasp, Go for the Throat
and sweepers such as Austere Command, Armageddon, Farewell, Toxic Deluge, Torment of Hailfire, Damnation
Are very common in Orzhov colors

Along with that list of removal options, Black especially excels at forcing opponents to sacrifice and/or discard (how are they gonna push a button if they have no hands!?)
I see you have Grave Pact but Dictate of Erebos is an additional effect that you can keep in your hand as a trap card with flash. 

Additionally, there are lots of sacrifice outlets that have some utility that I think would be good for you.  Village Rites, Ashnod's Altar, Victimize, Phyrexian Tower, Phyrexian Altar, Selfless Spirit, Remorseful Cleric, Culling the Weak

You also seem pretty (very) light on card draw on my first glace.  I am not familiar with a lot of the creatures you are running, so maybe they have some draw I am not aware of, but if you are drawing and then playing 1 card per turn, IMO you have already lost the game.  White has a few options to draw cards, but black is plentiful in these effects.  Reckoner's Bargain, Fanatical Offering, Costly Plunder, Nasty End, Altar's Reap, Corrupted Conviction, Plumb the Forbidden should be an auto include, Skullclamp to kill your tokens, The One Ring

I'm not sure what funds you have if you are building the deck in paper, or your group allows proxies, or you are building for online, but I see quite a few expensive cards, so if budget is not a real issue, you can do a lot to upgrade your land base,  Out with Scoured Barrens and Silverquill campus, and cut back a lot of basics, and put in Field of the Dead, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Isolated Chapel, Shinedown Snarl, Vault of Champions, Godless Shrine, Shattered Sanctum, Fetid Heath are some of my favorites.  Scrubland if you are really ballin out

Hope this helps.

[Fuzzy2Wasy]

I also took some time to look through the creatures you are running, and I'm scratching my head a little.  It could absolutely be that you just like those creatures and want to run them, and if so that is fantastic.  It is a little strange to me that you have chosen a commander that cares about 2 things (outside of just access to my two personal favorite colors ) . 

Teysa says 2 things, you are running 35 creatures currently, and here is my breakdown with how they play with your commander

1.  "if a creature dying causes a triggered ability you control to trigger, do it again"
 - Golgari thug, if IT dies you get to put 1 creature card from your graveyard on top of your library.  I would say this is a very situation effect, you need a good creature in your graveyard that you would rather draw over a different card, and then be able to draw that card before an opponent can interact with you IF they know a big threat is going on top
 - Massacre Girl, great to draw 2 cards off each trigger, but how difficult will it be in this deck to get your opponents creatures to exactly 1 or 0 toughness before killing them
 - Midnight Reaper, only triggers off your own, non-token creatures, but probably the most consistent source of card draw you have in your deck with the double trigger
 - Ojer Taq, it turns into a land twice?  Not anymore useful than in any other deck, Teysa does nothing for it
  - Sir Konrad, double triggers on him is excellent anytime any creature dies.  He still "only" gets 1 trigger for his other conditions, but still I would say very good card in this deck
So of your 35 creatures, exactly 5 have text that Teysa cares about, and one of those 5 is pointless

2. "Creature tokens you control have vigilance and lifelink"
By card type
Lands - 0 make tokens (really want a Field of the Dead here)
Enchantments - 4 makes tokens, Bastion and Stashed Skeleton each make exactly 1 token 1 time, Doom Foretold gets to resolve exactly 1 time and then you have to sacrifice it, Haunted Library can be a star in the deck
Instants - Seize the Soul makes 1 token 2 times
Sorceries - Finale of Glory obviously is very good finisher, less good if you don't have haste or can't cast at instant speed just before your turn starts.  If you make all those tokens on a huge cast, and then while they are all sick for a round someone casts a sweeper, well that stinks
Creatures- Generals Enforcer, Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia, Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, Teysa, Opulent Oligarch, Teysa, Orzhov Scion, and Vito the fanatic are the creatures you have that make tokens, to varying levels of difficulty and success. 
12 cards in your deck generate tokens. 

So of the two things you commander cares about, a grand total of 16 cards of 99 relate to your commander.   Again, I am not trying to poo-poo on your deck, if you are running it because they are things you like and you enjoy watching them do the thing they do, I totally dig it. 

Teysa decks typically tend to run cards like:

Zulaport Cutthroat, Cruel Celebrant, Pitiless Plunderer, Pawn of Ulamog, Doomed Traveler, Grim Haruspex, Ministrant of Obligation, Reassembling Skeleton, Blood Artist, Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim, Elenda, the Dusk Rose
Elenda, the Dusk Rose, Hallowed Spiritkeeper

These types of cards will consistently double your death triggers, and a LOT of them will also give you tokens at the same time.  If it were me, I would sort of redo the deck from scratch and look for a lot more of these types of effects (there are tons). 

If you like the cards you have, I might also suggest using a different commander that can help the things you like to run benefit you more/better
Athreos, God of Passage makes your opponents pay life to keep your dead creatures dead
Breena, the Demagogue encourages your opponents to attack each other, AND it triggers for you as long as you attack an opponent of yours you get card draw
Killian, Ink Duelist makes those targeted removal spells cheaper for you to cast to keep your opponents threats in check
Minthara, Merciless Soul lets you run whatever you want but all your things you have out always get bigger
Kambal, Consul of Allocation just hurts your opponents and helps you for just being on the board and playing the game

Overall, if you like the deck you have, as long as you enjoy it that is what matters!

[Landale]

Teysa says 2 things, you are running 35 creatures currently, and here is my breakdown with how they play with your commander

1.  "if a creature dying causes a triggered ability you control to trigger, do it again"
~
So of your 35 creatures, exactly 5 have text that Teysa cares about, and one of those 5 is pointless

Note that you're only counting the creature triggers, not other permanents.
Haunted Library will allow them to pay up to 2 for more spirits.
Bastion of Remembrance will drain twice.
Grave Pact will force double sacs on each death.
Malakir Rebirth puts the recursion effect on the creature, which provides an extremely niche situation where someone will have to counter two triggers to keep them from getting things back. This applies to Kaya's Ghostform as well.
This is not a significant improvement over what you've already pointed out, but it is more on goal than what you were giving credit for.

Jaycekun, please note that Cry of Contrition's trigger is not coming from a permanent and will not benefit from Teysa's doubling.

[Jaycekun]

Thank you so much for the feedback so far!

I like what you said about some of the creature's death triggers being being too situational and it has me thinking about what I should do to fix that. I have blood artist and a few other cards coming in the mail so that should help make the life gain/loss more consistent.

 I would like to talk a bit about the rhyme and reason behind some of the cards in the deck that were found confusing:

     1. I am mainly making my decks out of cards that I already have. Yes I think I have too many cards in the deck that I just like for the combos and they are taking away from the whole point of having a commander I can draw on whenever I want.

     2. Ojer Taq, the deepest foundation does technically have a death trigger but that isn't why I put it in the deck. I put it in the deck for making more tokens to sacrifice. Teysa, Orzhov Scion has the ability where everytime a black creature I control dies I create a 1/1 white spirit creature token. Ojer taq lets me tripple the amount of tokens I receive and then that is doubled again from Teysa Karlov. This results in 6 1/1 white spirit creature tokens instead of just 2 tokens from Teysa's doubling ability.

Thank you for pointing out that cry of contrition wouldn't be effected by the double death triggers since it isn't a permanent. I have plenty of other cards that I can swap in to make it better.

I originally wanted to load the deck up with creature cards that have 'Haunt' but I don't know whether or not those cards in exile are technically under my control or if I own them. If I own them that would mean the trigger effect for the haunted creature dying would happen twice because of Teysa Karlov. That would be awesome but I would be more embarassed if that didn't work.

I'm going to go ahead and switch out cards and update the deck. I'll make another comment when it has been updated.

[Landale]

I originally wanted to load the deck up with creature cards that have 'Haunt' but I don't know whether or not those cards in exile are technically under my control or if I own them. If I own them that would mean the trigger effect for the haunted creature dying would happen twice because of Teysa Karlov. That would be awesome but I would be more embarassed if that didn't work.

Haunt does not work with Teysa, unfortunately since it is a mechanic related directly to her guild. A "permanent" is defined as a token or card on the battlefield, while "permanent card" refers to ones that can be once they're moved there. If the card is in exile it is not a permanent, even if it is a permanent card.

[Fuzzy2Wasy]

I am mainly making my decks out of cards that I already have. Yes I think I have too many cards in the deck that I just like for the combos and they are taking away from the whole point of having a commander I can draw on whenever I want.

That is what it's all about.  There is nothing wrong at all with playing the cards you like, or the idea you have.  Hope nothing I said came across as mean.   

It looks like a fun deck and I really like your idea for your block of decks!