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Author Topic: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....  (Read 5110 times)

WWolfe

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2024, 09:38:47 pm »
I'd be happy with Gifts Ungiven being unbanned. It would break my Sidisi deck.
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Diskret

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2024, 02:17:33 pm »
Quote
Back to my question, if you go by that logic where do you set the threshold and to your point....what basis do you use for the scale?

That's the right question.
Personally? I enjoy lower power levels.
Let's say using MKM average price, anything 40€/50€+ must go (using the lowest printed value).
Maybe ban a few cheese 97-98 lands+2-3 cards combo decks while we're at it, those decks makes no f*cking sense in the format.

Imo, to simplify things a bit, the format could use a set limit on decks total value (without basic lands) and have different "levels" based on value to keep things fair and balanced.
0->150€ max 30€/card "entry level" (will work with most precons and lightly upgraded precons),
150->350€ max 70€/card "advanced level" (now you start to invest a bit more in the deck while not going overboard),
300€+ cEDH no max/card, man if you're going to spend that much for cardboard that's on you (dual lands, the heavy stuff...).
That's pretty much the "rule 0 talks" at this point.

WWolfe

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2024, 07:01:48 pm »
Thing about those thresholds is, unless you have a lower ban on cards over so much they don’t work. My Gisa deck is far from cEDH (I'd argue it's not even fully optimized) and is over $400. A ban on cards over $50 (going by the TCG Player prices listed on this site) wouldn’t hit a single card in it.

ETA- just uploaded the Endless Punishment Precon for Duskmourn starting desk list, without the new cards figured into the price, it's $108 on TCG. So it would probably end up right below your $150 threshold if you include the new cards. So without any upgrades, it is almost in the second level.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2024, 10:06:21 pm by WWolfe »
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anjinsan

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2024, 10:49:48 pm »
Personally? I enjoy lower power levels.
Let's say using MKM average price, anything 40€/50€+ must go (using the lowest printed value).
If you want lower power levels, why not ban higher power levels, rather than expensive cards? Sure, banning expensive cards bans Mana Crypt which is powerful, but it also bans Ali from Cairo, and doesn't ban budget-cEDH decks. (And if you proxy, they all cost the same anyway...  8))

robort

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2024, 12:08:30 pm »
Power levels are subjective so it be harder to ban cards based upon subjectivity.  I personally think the Committee itself isn't used to still not having Sheldon around. It comes to the matter of what now and what do we do from here.  That is why I like this thread because it is just hypothetical we are on the Committee as well. With so many ideas tossed around on this thread is what makes the beauty of commander exactly what it is Commander.  It gets even better with your own playgroup where you can have discussions on what can or what can't be played or used.  At times I think some people forget that Commander just isn't a tournament style format and I hope it never becomes one. 
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Diskret

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2024, 05:44:32 pm »
Quote
If you want lower power levels, why not ban higher power levels, rather than expensive cards?
guess what? Strong cards tends to be expensive! 🫨

AlltheTokens

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2024, 05:45:47 pm »
Prices also fluctuate a lot.  Bans based of price will always be problematic for this reason.

Diskret

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2024, 05:49:55 pm »
tbh magic cards don't come with a power level printed on them, and with the power creep over the years it's simply impossible to really have a banlist based on ... anything? Imagine in 10, 20 years with the power creep going on... yeah,mtg will probably be yu-gi-oh 2.0 at this point lol

anjinsan

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2024, 09:52:27 pm »
Quote
If you want lower power levels, why not ban higher power levels, rather than expensive cards?
guess what? Strong cards tends to be expensive! 🫨
As I said in my last post: they tend to be, but they aren't always - and, conversely, not all expensive cards are strong. Banning expensive cards is a very poor approximation of banning strong cards.

WWolfe

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2024, 01:54:42 am »
I'm for less bans. I think the problem with bans on prices can be misleading. Like I said, the Endless Punishment precon with the cards there's prices for on the site was over $100. I swapped out 12 cards (still leaving 10 that there's no price for listed on this site yet) and it was over the $150 suggested threshold, and I really didn't add anything all that expensive or overly powerful, the most expensive is Solphim, Mayhem Dominus which the site lists at under $10.
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Niftyness

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2024, 10:02:37 am »
I tend to see mass land destruction get banned in my play groups. Popping one land is ok, but resetting the whole game back to zero and prolonging a game can be quite tiresome. Also, although it is rare, I see people count poison counters up to 20 for a kill, instead of 10.

WWolfe

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2024, 10:24:11 pm »
MLD is "heavily frowned upon" in my main playgroup but not outright banned. The poison counter thing I can see both sides of. I'm fine with it being at 10 but I wouldn't argue heavily with someone that wanted it at 20. The deck I have that can deal 10 poison counters out of nowhere could make it 20 with little issue, it just may take an additional turn.
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Khaydarin

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2024, 12:01:23 am »
Unban Panoptic Mirror, probably. A ten mana counterable 2-card combo win that gives your opponents an entire turn cycle to kill your artifact might have been too strong 19 years ago, but nowadays?

The only argument I have heard for keeping Panoptic Mirror banned that is even halfway reasonable is that new players might add it to their deck without very much thought and have it be too powerful, but who's picking up packs of Darksteel (2004) at their LGS to find a cool rare to slot into their EDH deck in the year of our lord 2024?

AlltheTokens

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2024, 04:57:26 am »
I would just end up sticking a ramp spell on it anyway.  It is banned because extra turn spells exist, but there are tons of easier ways to take repeated extra turns nowadays.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2024, 04:59:48 am by AlltheTokens »

WWolfe

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Re: So say you're on the Commander Rules Committee....
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2024, 05:36:42 pm »
I think Panoptic Mirror would be hard for them to unban. Like Allthetokens said, the extra turn spells are what make it broken. Now Primeval Titan is one I'd like to see discussion about unbanning. It's one that I could see arguments both ways.
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