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Author Topic: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"  (Read 15573 times)

LCHX

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Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« on: March 19, 2015, 05:23:58 am »
Hi everyone

My friends and I were having an argument related to the hexproof ability and I hope you can answer this:

Whenever I cast Wildfire in the game, some of my friends say that it doesn't affect hexproof creatures because, as long as it says "each creature", it is already marking those creatures as targets. For me, as long as the card does not states the "target" word, it actually affect creatures with hexproof.

Thanks

Mopey

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2015, 09:07:34 am »
That's true. When it's 'each creature', Hexproof does not work. Since Hexproof only works for spells which target. So if someone targets your Hexproof creature in particular, the target spell won't work. If someone casts Judgment Day, for example, your creature is not targeted in particular, so it will die.

Source: I play a Hexproof Aura deck, I should know :)

LCHX

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 04:07:26 pm »
Thank you, Mopey.  :)

Juri_pro

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2015, 07:30:26 pm »
When cards say "each creature" or "all creatures" they mean also creature with hexproof, so these are subject to the effect of those cards.

Remeber also that: cards as Devour Flesh target you, so sometimes you may be forced to sacrifice the creature with hexproof (as it is the only one that you control) or a protection (as Blood Baron of Vizkopa, protected from black)
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NickNasty

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2015, 10:56:24 pm »
That's true. When it's 'each creature', Hexproof does not work. Since Hexproof only works for spells which target. So if someone targets your Hexproof creature in particular, the target spell won't work. If someone casts Judgment Day, for example, your creature is not targeted in particular, so it will die.

Source: I play a Hexproof Aura deck, I should know :)

I'm not sure I agree with that. Even if it says "each creature" that is still targeting creatures in a broad sense. Is there an official decision anywhere in the MTG Rules? I would rule against Wildfire affecting that particular creature with Hexproof...

Drunk Cynic

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2015, 11:13:09 pm »
That's true. When it's 'each creature', Hexproof does not work. Since Hexproof only works for spells which target. So if someone targets your Hexproof creature in particular, the target spell won't work. If someone casts Judgment Day, for example, your creature is not targeted in particular, so it will die.

Source: I play a Hexproof Aura deck, I should know :)

I'm not sure I agree with that. Even if it says "each creature" that is still targeting creatures in a broad sense. Is there an official decision anywhere in the MTG Rules? I would rule against Wildfire affecting that particular creature with Hexproof...

You would be wrong. To start, Wildfire doesn't target; do not use the word target when discussing the damage it does. Similar for Anger of the Gods or Chandra's Ignition. The effect goes through each permanent on the battlefield, and asks "is this a creature?" If yes, they do damage.

The text for Hexproof:
702.11. Hexproof
702.11a Hexproof is a static ability.
702.11b "Hexproof" on a permanent means "This permanent can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control."
702.11c "Hexproof" on a player means "You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control."
702.11d Multiple instances of hexproof on the same permanent or player are redundant.

The important part is that it can't be targeted; Wildfire doesn't target.
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jdshifflett

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2015, 04:34:20 am »
L1 here. The wording is everything. If the card does not say Target Creature then it's damage does effect hexproof.

NickNasty

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2015, 04:36:59 pm »
That's true. When it's 'each creature', Hexproof does not work. Since Hexproof only works for spells which target. So if someone targets your Hexproof creature in particular, the target spell won't work. If someone casts Judgment Day, for example, your creature is not targeted in particular, so it will die.

Source: I play a Hexproof Aura deck, I should know :)

I'm not sure I agree with that. Even if it says "each creature" that is still targeting creatures in a broad sense. Is there an official decision anywhere in the MTG Rules? I would rule against Wildfire affecting that particular creature with Hexproof...

You would be wrong. To start, Wildfire doesn't target; do not use the word target when discussing the damage it does. Similar for Anger of the Gods or Chandra's Ignition. The effect goes through each permanent on the battlefield, and asks "is this a creature?" If yes, they do damage.

The text for Hexproof:
702.11. Hexproof
702.11a Hexproof is a static ability.
702.11b "Hexproof" on a permanent means "This permanent can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control."
702.11c "Hexproof" on a player means "You can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponents control."
702.11d Multiple instances of hexproof on the same permanent or player are redundant.

The important part is that it can't be targeted; Wildfire doesn't target.

I think it is a game of semantics at that point. You would need to insert some word such as "specifically" to the card's text for it to be applied that way. Otherwise, targeting is targeting no matter how broad or narrow the scope is.

Bartley

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2015, 04:47:30 pm »
Its' pretty simple really.... If the spell doesn't say "target Creature" or creatures".... then its a global effect and hexproof, shroud/ un-target-able creatures become the target of the spell.


So in your situation Wildfire would still deal damage to his creatures.


Best wishes:)

Drunk Cynic

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 04:50:32 pm »
It very well is a game of semantics. The finer rules of Magic revolve around semantics and the words on the card. The special word is there, 'each.'

Hexproof prevents an object, or a player, from being targeted by spells. Wildfire doesn't target, so is unconcerned.
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costa_rica9

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2021, 11:06:31 pm »
Would simic charm prevent my board from being wiped with obliterate

0zbozz

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2021, 12:17:15 am »
Would simic charm prevent my board from being wiped with obliterate

It would not (the second mode).
Same reason. Destroy all (...) doesen't mean that something gets targeted. Hexproof denies just that. Something can't be the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls.
Heroic intervention would prevent the destroy effect of obliterate for example. Because it gives your permanents indestructible. Not because of hexproof.
Greetings
« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 02:02:21 pm by 0zbozz »

Aetherium Slinky

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2021, 11:10:39 am »
Hexproof literally only works when the word "target" is involved. It does not protect your stuff from annihilator, Tragic Arrogance or anything that doesn't say "target". "Each", "all" do not target. Sometimes "choose" doesn't target if it doesn't say so, just like in Tragic Arrogance.
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robort

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Re: Hexproof against cards which states "each creature"
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2021, 12:53:10 pm »
I remember when I first started playing I had the same thought reasoning. I had thought if I point a shotgun, fire and hit 5 things with it I was targeted all that. But it is simple that we have to follow the rules no matter our thought reasoning. If a card doesn't say "target" on it then it can hit a creature with hexproof.
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