Undying and Persisting - Comments

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[JoshyTaubs]

too many guildgate type lands

[Reeze17]

Wow, I didn't even realize! here, fixed up, it is a lot better. I think I was just lost in the fact is was three colors and I wanted to evenly cover each of them.

[JacG]

I've been prototyping a deck that has a similar basic idea to this. You can see it here: https://deckstats.net/decks/9519/67780-undying/en
I think the two cards from it you could use are "Ion Storm" and "Cauldron of Souls." Both of them make Undying creatures stick around a LOT longer than they should.

[Reeze17]

I love "Ion Storm!" I will see where I can fit it in. I also like the use of Exava. However, "Cauldron of Souls" is rather pointless, as they all have persist or undying already. It wouldn't help my undying, that is a common misconception due to the rarity of the event occurring, but, when a creature has a +1/+1 counter on it and then has a -1/-1 counter place, it does not remove the original counter, it is just nullified.

[JacG]

There actually is an interaction between counters:
121.3 If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1
counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters
on it.
Source: https://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/resources/rules/MagicCompRules_21031101.pdf
I was using this interaction to give a creature with Undying (and a +1/+1 on it already) persist, so that it would come back with a -1/-1. Then, it could stick around to die (and return) again.
I hope I don't come of as a jerk with my rules-ninja bit there :/

[JacG]

I did some further reading, and the counters *can* exits on the card simultaneously, but only until state-based actions are checked (at which point some of them are annihilated).

[Reeze17]

Very interesting. Thank you for pointing that out, I was told otherwise during an unofficial tournament.