Need help making Flayer/Grimoire deck faster

[sscrofani]

Flayer of the Hatebound and Grimoire of the Dead often is the winning combo in this deck. The problem is, I am winning around turn 7/8/9, that is, if my opponent is as slow as I am. I need help making this work faster.

Any general suggestions or specific problems, please post.

Thanks 

[sscrofani]

Oh and here is the link:

http://deckstats.net/decks/60020/438633-grixis-reanimator-rebuild-4-fl/en

[skeri]

You could try a few lower mana cost creatures? Right now it doesn't look like you can cast any creatures on turns one or two at all and the only way you can deal any damage to opponents or players on those turns is if you happen to have your Lightning Bolt and a red mana available. If you played something like Sanitarium Skeleton you would be able to have some creatures out on turn one and two and if it dies you can bring it back from your graveyard. You could also play a card like Relentless Dead which has a madness cost and can be brought back from after it dies.

[sscrofani]

Yeah, I agree. I need at least a couple more lower cost creatures. I can replace Vithian Stinger and/or Geralf's Messenger with Relentless Dead. Thanks that helps a lot. I was thinking Pyreheart Wolf may also be worth considering, but again, that is 3 mana.

Also, I'm trying to figure out how to get mana out faster, to play Grimoire of the Dead earlier. Maybe add an artifact that taps for mana....?

[Philippe Saner]

Geralf's Messenger seems pretty questionable in a deck with so little black. Relentless Dead seems questionable too. Actually, if I were you I'd consider dropping black entirely.

Since you're playing Modern, maybe Snapcaster Mage or Young Pyromancer is worth a look.

Some Madness stuff might be useful, since you're discarding cards anyway. Maybe Fiery Temper?

I dunno about Through The Breach. Your deck isn't really set up to use it to its full extent, since you don't have any instant-win creatures to drop with it.

[sscrofani]

------Madness - good advice - thank you------

Don't agree with you on these points:

-Ha, Snapcaster Mage + Young Pyromancer combo. Can you be a little more reasonable? There has to be another way.

-Geralf's Messenger. If it was 2 black mana instead of 3 OR if it didn't come into play tapped - it would be a solid card in this deck. Undying triggers Flayer of the Hatebound and Prized Amalgam.

-Relentless Dead. Same problem as Geralf. Hard to get the black mana out quickly enough to do early damage.

Agree with you here:

-Through the Breach needs to be paired with something more powerful, that is what it is designed for. Nevertheless, still questionable in this deck. One reason has to do with mana. I am waiting as it is for Grimoire of the Dead to pull creatures from the graveyard. Through the Breach is 1 mana more, (5 total), and can also only be played late game.

[G. Moto]

   Well if you think about it, Grimoire of the dead almost seems to be themed for specifically Black Zombie themed decks. If you don't mind entering tapped you could add diregraf ghoul. Also gravecrawler, hunted ghoul, and typhoid rats are all also turn 1 plays. Also they're all black and are zombies so ghoulcaller's chant can be helpful. Here's something else to consider, if you add more Black>Red>Blue  and drop some of the higher drop creatures and spells and focus more on the actual creature recursion then you'll have a faster deck. Less dead hands and more plays. Also if you add galvanic key then you can use the effect of your grimoire of the dead at least twice per turn.  Just some thoughts.

[Philippe Saner]

It might be zombie-themed, but that doesn't mean it has any synergy with random Zombies.

-Ha, Snapcaster Mage + Young Pyromancer combo. Can you be a little more reasonable? There has to be another way.

Not sure what you mean by reasonable. Is it a price issue?

Because while Snapcaster Mage is very expensive, Young Pyromancer is fairly affordable at 5$ or so. Much cheaper than Through the Breach.

[G. Moto]

I was mentioning those zombies because they are low drop creatures that could be played fast. Creating an actual zombie deck around them you could use some of the actual zombie creatures from Grixis. This way they can enter the field multiple times without you having to unearth them. This will let you keep more creatures in the grave, get more creature triggers, and open up more plays for you.

[skeri]

I was mentioning those zombies because they are low drop creatures that could be played fast. Creating an actual zombie deck around them you could use some of the actual zombie creatures from Grixis. This way they can enter the field multiple times without you having to unearth them. This will let you keep more creatures in the grave, get more creature triggers, and open up more plays for you.

I agree with G Moto's advice for your deck. Instead of hinging everything on drawing that one combo you could play your deck from multiple angles with some more low drop and zombie themed cards. That way you can hold your own while you wait to draw everything you need for your Grixis combo.

You mentioned getting more mana out and no one has addressed that yet. Have you considered playing anything like Vessel of Volatility (keep in mind it is strictly red mana) or something like Evolving Wilds to let you search for the mana color of your choosing? Or just playing more mana in general; I play on the higher side of mana requirements for my deck builds. I would rather be able to play a land every turn or be mana flooded than sit there with a bunch of good cards that I can't use.

[G. Moto]

  And also keep in mind that if you use dual lands, even if they give you 2 life they will enter tapped. If you add 3-4 evolving wilds to your deck and then trimmed the dual lands down to maybe 1 of each (depending on what the deck's main color identity will be) and keeping all your tri-color lands then your mana base should be fine. You're running a 60 card deck so your mana should really be between 22 (on the low side) and 26 (on the high side depending on the deck). Usually I would just sit at 24 as the default because it's a safe number to play without getting mana flooded constantly.

    Also I would recommend switching out through the breach for a lower costed card but with something of equal value. For example, if you include call to the kindred then every turn you can drop a new creature pretty much straight from your deck onto the battlefield without having to worry about casting costs. As long as your enchanted creature stays alive you are basically receiving a free creature every turn. Also adding diregraf captain will give all your zombies a power boost and it'll burn your opponent every time they die. Since your grimoire of the dead turns the creatures it brings back into zombies, anything that dies after that point is basically free burn damage. Creatures such as black cat would become an investment, butcher ghoul is a fairly low cost card that naturally has undying, and sanitarium skeleton will help with any discard costs for other spells.

    Here's another idea for you, if your deck focuses around dropping creatures in the grave for recursion then why not assist that way as well? If you use altar's reap then you can sac a creature that has undying, get free cards and the creature comes back stronger. bone splinters would be great to have at instant speed,also if you want to get tricky you can use corpse traders. Basically sac a creature (works in your favor) and discard ANY card that your opponent has that you don't like. It can only be used on your turn but its effect includes LANDS. So say goodbye to your opponent's mana base.

[Bartley]

Flayer of the Hatebound and Grimoire of the Dead often is the winning combo in this deck. The problem is, I am winning around turn 7/8/9, that is, if my opponent is as slow as I am. I need help making this work faster.

Any general suggestions or specific problems, please post.

Thanks 

There are a lot of good comments here but if you want to keep your original idea and just want to speed it up you could always toss in some Seething Song, Geosurge, or dark ritual to get your stuff out earlier?

[G. Moto]

There are a lot of good comments here but if you want to keep your original idea and just want to speed it up you could always toss in some Seething Song, Geosurge, or dark ritual to get your stuff out earlier?
[/quote]

     These are easier ways to bust out mana faster. But also consider this, if you play those spells to get extra mana then you're really only getting SOME of the mana that's being produced. For example; if you have 3 lands and you play seething song for 3 mana (which will tap you out) then it'll produces 5 mana. If my math is right then you're really only netting 2 "extra mana". Am I right about this or are you netting the full 5 mana even with your lands tapped?

[sscrofani]

Thank you everyone.  There are some really well thought-out ideas here that I think are not only conceptually good, but will help the deck be faster, create more synergy, have an attack and defense plan for early in the game, and overall just make better use of the cards.

Two approaches to creating this build are in the comments - (1) Zombies with a more consistent focus on creature resurrection. Through the Breach would be replaced with Call to the Kindred. I would be adding low cost creatures like gravecrawler and creatures with undying. Other spells, Bone Splinter + Altars Reap, perfect. OR (2) Keep late game strategy as is, and add mana generating cards to play the big spells faster. By adding Seething Song, Dark Ritual, etc. (G.Moto, yes, you are netting 2 mana with seething song) Galvanic key can be used to speed up Grimoire of the Dead.

I really like both strategies....However, I am inspired by the Zombie approach.

G.Moto - Your suggestions have put the G back in Grixis for this deck. Skeri, also, thanks for the great input. More black not less, (ahem Philip).  Diregraf Captain is what I need to be more powerful earlier in the game. Corpse Traders I am almost sold on, it is a bit conditional -  you can only cast it when you cast a sorcery.

I am proceeding to build these..............stay tuned.

[G. Moto]

   I'm glad that everyone was able to assist you in such a manner. Also a thing about corpse traders, it reads; activate this ability only anytime you COULD cast a sorcery. This means that you can only cast it on your turn. You do not have to wait to play an actual sorcery spell to actually use the effect. So as long as you have the mana for the effect you can use it multiple times.