Can't Lose, Can't Win - Comments

[Comment Bot]

Can't Lose, Can't Win

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[Harris999]

If the opponent runs out of cards to draw, does Abyssal Persecutor prevent them from losing the game?

[ggtestament]

Sorry, Wrath of God or similar Board wipe will kill this deck. Also, you don't have enough counterspells to stall the game long enough for your win con to come out

[Harris999]

@ggtestament Your probably right about not enough counterspells. Havn't play tested it at all yet, still a new idea. But ideally one would have enough counterspells still in hand to stop Wrath of God and similar cards while on the stack, don't you think?

[ggtestament]

No, people who play Wrath of God and something similar would typically be a control player, which means that they typically run white/blue decks with counterspells against counterspells.

Alternatively, they would use Supreme Verdict, which is a really common sideboard in decks like Jeskai Control or U/W control. On the other side of the spectrum, certain combo decks in Legacy (Belcher, Elves, Oops all spells, Storm) can go off within 1-2 turns. 4 counterspell is much too slow. You need Force of Will.

You might also want to look for ways to cheat the creatures out.

[ApothecaryGeist]

If the opponent runs out of cards to draw, does Abyssal Persecutor prevent them from losing the game?

Abyssal Persecutor says that "your opponents can't lose the game".  Jut like Platinum Angel says that "you can't lose the game".  These both mean for any and every reason.  Draw from an empty libray ... you don't lose.  Life total zero or less ... you don't lose.  Got 10 or more poison counters ... you don't lose.  If you can't lose, it also means that no one else can win (because, logically, if they win then you lose).  So if there is any kind of alternate win condition, like a powered up Helix Pinnacle ... no one wins.

So yes, this combo does work.  it is deliciously evil. 

[Harris999]

Thanks ApothecaryGeist. I was just hung up on the second ruling here: gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197869. I now realize it's about "out of game" type things rather than the in game type rules that the first ruling pertains to.

ggtestament, I was trying to keep this deck somewhat budget friendly but I will probably make a new version that is more likely able to insure the scenario I am aiming for. Thanks for the feedback! Maybe I will also look around for something that can prevent Supreme Verdict from being played in the first place and hope that one draws into that prevention fast enough. Thanks for the feedback!

If we are going all in, I think Greater Auramancy and/or Greater Auramancy might work well. Will start looking for some Indestructibility.

Here's a question, still relatively new to mtg, Let's say I flicker Abyssal Persecutor.. what happens?

[ggtestament]

Flicker would not work, but Flickerwisp would. The difference is that Flicker is still resolving when it brings back the creature, whereas Flickerwisp blinks out the Persecutor and then bring it back sometime later.

[ApothecaryGeist]

If you flicker Abyssal Persecutor (or anything really) ... Once a spell/ability begins resolving, it finishes before anything else can happen.  State-based actions (like losing the game) do not happen until the spell/ability has completely resolved.  No one gets priority until the spell/ability has completely resolved.  Any enter/leaves the battlefield triggers will go on the stack to resolve at a later time - once the current spell/ability has completely resolved and each player has passed priority.

So in this particular example.  Say all of your opponents have negative life totals, while you still have a positive life total.  You flicker your Abyssal Persecutor.  Once Flicker starts to resolve, it exiles the Abyssal Persecutor.  Then it brings Abyssal Persecutor back to the battlefield.  Flicker is put into the graveyard as the last part of its resolution.  Now state-based effects check.  You still can't win and your opponents still can't lose.

You would need an effect like Eerie Interlude to exile the creature temporarily and allow for priority to pass while Abyssal Persecutor is in exile.

 

[by31012]

Is it just me or has no one noticed that Greater Auramancy is for enchanted creatures not equipped... GA does nothing to protect them from targeted exile on them even with the platesteel on..

[Harris999]

Just you. Nice catch. I missed it...