What SCG Con Taught Me About Commander And Its Players- by Sheldon

[WWolfe]

http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/38150_What-SCG-Con-Taught-Me-About-Commander-And-Its-Players.html

Thoughts?

[WWolfe]

Man, really thought there would be some discussion about this.

Sheldon at times seems out of touch with how varied the type of play different people want. Maybe the format has outgrown the rules committees vision of the game? They've done very good lately with most of their decisions, but at times some of his comments and stance on certain things just makes me shake my head.

I understand wanting games of the same power level or style of game play, but isn't that up to the people at the table to discuss before the game starts, not after the game starts and something is played that goes against your expectation of the game?

I also don't think Sheldon should be surprised when people go all-in against him. He's the face of the format in a lot of ways, he should expect that people would pull out all stops to be able to say they beat him. It's just like JLK from the Command Zone having people constantly trying to do so.

[Morganator 2.0]

Since when are Cyclonic Rift, Deadeye Navigator, and Sol Ring the usual suspects for being banned?

I seem to get the impression that this dude doesn't know how to tech against decks. You don't deal with Winter Orb by complaining about it; use Nature's Claim. If you don't like boardwipes, slot in Counterspell, Heroic Intervention, or Teferi's Protection.

As much as people dislike stax, it stops the combo player(s).  It is a viable archetype, and one that receives a lot of hate. In the same way that Modern hates Lantern Control. And standard hates netdecks. And everyone hates blue.

Just because you don't like a playstyle, doesn't mean you should resort to calling for cards to be banned, or belittling your opponent. Work on your deck-tech. It's difficult to be prepared for everything (likely impossible), but that's just one of the deckbuilding challenges I enjoy.

[ApothecaryGeist]

Sheldon at times seems out of touch with how varied the type of play different people want. Maybe the format has outgrown the rules committees vision of the game? They've done very good lately with most of their decisions, but at times some of his comments and stance on certain things just makes me shake my head.

ok.  I went and reread the article.  It is about Sheldon Menery's observations that Commander is a lot of different things to a lot of different people.  (Unlike formats like Standard or Modern that are pretty much the same wherever you go.)  I'm certain this is nothing new to Sheldon.  He has actually written about it on several occassions.

I understand wanting games of the same power level or style of game play, but isn't that up to the people at the table to discuss before the game starts, not after the game starts and something is played that goes against your expectation of the game?

Absolutely.  And the rules committee has stated so on several occassions.  The RC has stated on repeatedly that each play group should decide for themselves what to allow and what not to allow with respect to deck builds and play styles.  The official banlist and deck construction rules exist for the purpose of allowing complete strangers to get together at gaming events and play a "casual" game of commander without having to spend hours debating what rules should be used.

by Morganator 2.0
Since when are Cyclonic Rift, Deadeye Navigator, and Sol Ring the usual suspects for being banned?

Since always.  Any time a card is considered an auto-include, there becomes a segment of the Commander crowd that would like to see it banned.  This is particularly the case with Sol Ring and Cyclonic Rift.  Solemn Simulacrum usually makes that list too.  It is my experience that this segment seems to be the same segment that likes commander because 100-card singleton decks are supposed to be varied and provide a different play experience every time.  And this goes back to the point of this particular article that Commander is many things different people.

by Morganator 2.0
I seem to get the impression that this dude doesn't know how to tech against decks. You don't deal with Winter Orb by complaining about it; use Nature's Claim. If you don't like boardwipes, slot in Counterspell, Heroic Intervention, or Teferi's Protection.

I don't think anyone on the planet is going to accuse Sheldon Menery of not knowing how to deck tech.    And he is not complaining per se that those cards are in the format.  (If he really felt otherwise he could make them be banned.)  He is stating that the Stax archetype is primarily found in the cEDH realm.  And that when people play stax in a casual setting their opponents, including Sheldon apparently, stereotype those players as A-holes.

This article was actually Sheldon softly defending stax players.  He was telling the community at large that stax players, even in casual Commander settings, are not playing stax because they are A-holes.  They are playing stax because that is what they like about Commander.

That is what I got out of reading this article. 

[WWolfe]

I don't know, he did that article a while back where he talked about cards he thought were bad for the format. Most of them were stax or resource denial cards. Then there were things like Wound Reflection and Sorin Markov that he really didn't like at all either.

Regardless, there's thing he says that makes me shake my head at times. Though as I said, I do think they've done better with their rulings lately (though I do think getting rid of the Banned as Commander list was dumb).

Cyclonic Rift, Deadeye Navigator, and Sol Ring are among the cards that usually come up the most in talks of cards that should be banned. The other I hear a lot of is Food Chain which I think is a little ridiculous. It's a known boogey man but it isn't an auto include in decks.

[Morganator 2.0]

You're talking about this article.

http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/37865_Commander-Cards-You-Shouldnt-Play.html

Myself and a friend of mine discussed this article. We're pretty sure Sheldon got smacked by a Derevi, Empyrial Tactician deck; all except for 3 of the cards listed see play in Derevi. And most of these cards are stax cards, so this isn't the first time he's brought up stax.

In this newest article, he focuses on stax, and glazed over the Wanderwine Prophet combo.

"I asked him if he was aware that these were not the kinds of things that made friendly games".

I could think of more passive aggressive comments, but I'm drawing a blank right now. But regardless, my point is that he focused the article on stax, and stax players. I'm further convinced by what he said after facing a second stax player.

Again, I was faced with a person who was pleasant and affable, but he was playing the kinds of decks that I believe are bad for the format and certainly not anywhere near what anyone, even the most diehard competitive player, would recognize as friendly.

I guarantee the most diehard competitive players have no issue with stax (Soren841, back me up) and it can still be a fun game with stax at the table. But he specifically says that he thinks these decks are not good for the format. He clearly doesn't like stax, and definitely thinks that no one should be playing these decks, because they ruin the fun of the format. He's not defending stax, he's baffled that genuinely good people would play these decks. He's arguing for people to not play these decks, in order to make it more fun for everyone else.

But these games can still be fun. Stax has a trade-off; if you stax everyone, all guns are pointed at you. The other players have a chance to work together to find a solution to stax. It encourages including more interaction (namely artifact and enchantment removal) to fight back against these decks. Stax decks also need to become more creative at being able to stop other decks from winning.

Fortunately, I don't think anything will be done. There is a long list of cards you would need to ban to get rid of the stax archetype, so it's here to stay. The great irony, is that stax decks stop the Wanderwine Prophet combo.

[Soren841]

Stax is fine, it's actually harder to win with stax in the current Flash Hulk combo meta. It takes a lot of skill. People just don't like playing against disruptive strategies.

[WWolfe]

I'm mostly a casual player and Stax doesn't bother me in the least. It's part of the format and should be accepted as such.