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Autor Tema: [EDH / Commander] Oloro's Pillowfort Tokens  (Leído 272 veces)

Brains911

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[EDH / Commander] Oloro's Pillowfort Tokens
« en: Diciembre 17, 2019, 01:42:25 am »
https://deckstats.net/decks/133433/1305870-oloro-s-pillowfort-tokens

Hey, I'd appreciate if my deck was reviewed, and if there were any suggestions for improvement.
Thank you.

Red_Wyrm

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Re: [EDH / Commander] Oloro's Pillowfort Tokens
« Respuesta #1 en: Diciembre 17, 2019, 03:38:13 am »
Hello! I am not sure the budget we are working with here, so I'll assume anything and everything can be proxied; in other words, no budget.

Pretty much ANY land that enters tapped I would toss. And then I would include all the fetchlands except for wooded foothills. Yes even the ones like scalding tarn since they can go get you blue, and they allow you to shuffle your library on command. I would also run all the shock lands that are appropriate. Watery Grave, Hallowed Fountain and Godless Shrine. Then there is also Morphic Pool and sea of clouds that work amazingly in commander. I run Mana confluence in most of my 3+ color decks, but only because I own plenty of them. I also think ancient tomb would go great here. Oh, and while working under the presumption of no budget, I must mention the original duals. Underground Sea, Tundra and Scrubland.

Also the land count is really low, especially with your current average CMC being just over 4 mana, so I would definately bump it up to 30 lands minimum, and probably to 33-35 optimally.

Okay. Now I have moved on to the next category, copying. I will say, I think if you want to play copy cards in esper, you should be running Sen Triplets as the commander instead of Oloro, but if you want Oloro, Oloro it shall be.

The only one here I really have a problem with is Helm of the Host. It seems great on paper, but it is just so mana intensive. For a total of 9 mana you get one copy of a card, and you have to wait a whole turn before you get a second one. A lot happens in one round. For 9 mana you want to be winning the game with cards like expropriate. I would probably take out helm of the host for one of those land slots I just mentioned.

TOKENS!

Regna, the Redeemer is a great card, but I dont think she is worth 6 mana, especially if you aren't running Krav, the unredeemed to synergize with her. God-Eternal Oketra is, I think, a better substitue, especially with the nearly 30 creatures you are running.
Also consider Grave Titan. He is a monster.

Counter & Life Gain/Drain
Ajani's Pridemate seems kind of underwhelming, but I suppose for two mana, it can stay for now.   
Chalice of Life is a neat card, but it sucks. I wish it were more impactful. Like each opponent loses 3 life maybe? The problem is it wasn't designed for multiplayer. I think I have it in my Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim deck, which if I do, I need to kick it out.
Price of Knowledge this is such a cool card, and I get you want to do the drain life thing like what Oloro does, but this thing isn't really worth the seven mana unless you are playing several cards like howling mine, temple bell or underworld dreams. Actually I think you just inspired me to make a Seizan, Perverter of Truth deck. Anyway, I don't think it is worth the 7 mana in this deck.
Soul Barrier, again the drain life thing, I get it, but this sucks. Blood Seeker is a better card I think. It is less mana, it is a creature, which I think is better in this deck, and the damage isnt avoidable. (I spent several minutes trying to find this card. I was thinking blood artist, but that wasn't the right card.)
You are running Sanguine Bond, so go get Exquisite Blood. The problem with running one of those cards, is people automatically assume you are running the other, so you mine as well run both or neither.

Easier Cards (Not quite sure what the title of this category means)
As Foretold. Yeah no, cut it. It doesn't have an immediate impact, and it takes WAY too long to have an impact. It isn't like consecrated sphinx, which has no immediate impact, but gets your mana's worth in a single round.
Debtors' Knell. I would love to run this card, but it is so expensive mana wise. Usually you want your creatures anyway since they synergize with your deck better, so you should use Phyrexian Reclamation I think instead, sure you have to cast them again, but so what? It is card advantage. Or maybe for when your opponent loses their amazing Avacyn, Angel of Hope, and you want to take it from their graveyard, run reanimate. The life loss is nothing to you.
Font of Mythos. No sir. You are giving your opponents card advantage. Run phyrexian arena instead, or necropotence (which combined with bolas's citadel is absolutely amazing.)
Grave Betrayal. Same thing as Debtor'' Knell. Too expensive for no immediate impact. I would rather have Rise of the Dark Realms.
Memnarch. What does he really do in your deck? He is a neat card on his own, but he doesn't help your deck do what it wants to do, make tokens while draining your opponents and gaining life. Cut mr. memnarch.
Mind's Dilation. Look dude, I totally get it. You want all these big splashy spells that look great like Mind's Dilation, Grave Betray and Debtors' Knell, but the really are not that good. I have tried so hard to make those cards work, and they simply don't. At 7 mana, you want an impact right away, and with Mind's DIlation, there is no guarantee you even get to cast a card.   
Tamiyo's Journal. Just any of the following instead (or all): Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Lim Dul's Vault,  diabolic intent or scheming symmetry. There are others, but you get the idea, there are better options.
Zur the Enchanter. No. Most of the enchantments are more than 3 cmc, so it doesn't work. If you think about it, most of the enchantments at 3 cmc or less aren't worth tutoring. If you draw it, great, if not, you will hopefully have something else that helps in another way.

Taxing, Protection
Cloud Cover. In esper, nothing in the graveyard is lost. You should be able to pull stuff out of the graveyard willy nilly and so I think this effect to prevent them from going to the graveyard is redundant.
Counterbalance. You want top deck manipulation like Sensei's Dicining Top or Scroll Rack, and if you are going to go that route, you want cards to get those cards like fabricate, whir of invention or trinket mage (only gets the top), but I feel like that is dedicating too many cards to a single combo. Perhaps just try counterspell. Usually once is enough.
Diplomatic Immunity. I will (grudgingly) bite my tongue here. I guess it can stay.
Fatestitcher. Okay please justify this one, I don't think you can. It should go.
Consider Teferi's Protection and/or Cyclonic rift for protection,, although the latter can often be used as a win con too.

Mana
Stone Calendar. If it is more than 2 mana, you have to heavily consider weather or not it is worth it. I don't think it is here. Play helm of awakening. Most people forget it is on the table, and thus the drawback of reducing everyone's spells is somewhat negated.
I would also consider arcane signet and fellwar stone, as well as chrome mox and possibly mox opal. if you were to run mox opal, you should run ancient den, seat of the synod and vault of whispers.
Knight of the white orchard is good ramp too.
Land tax is not technically ramp, but it definitely helps thin our your deck, although you don't rum many plains, so maybe forget I mentioned that card.

Destroy
Okay all of these, except maybe avatar of woe need to go. Just run stuff like utter end, return to dust, anguished unmaking, path to exile, darksteel mutation, swan song, pact of negation, stuff like that.

Synergistic Combos
Inexorable Tide. You don't have too many counters. I think a better card would be Song of the Worldsoul.

That is my two cents. If you have a question about why I chose one card over another, or anything really, please ask. I will be more than happy to answer to the best of my ability.
« Última modificación: Diciembre 17, 2019, 03:40:28 am por Red_Wyrm »
My King Baby said yes!
I thought you'd never ask
Also, I always spell your name correctly, Red_Wurm.  :)

Please, it is Red

Marshstepper78

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Re: [EDH / Commander] Oloro's Pillowfort Tokens
« Respuesta #2 en: Diciembre 17, 2019, 04:02:28 am »
Every time there's a new Oloro deck in the review section, I check the land count and average cmc to see if he's trolling under another name.

Red_Wyrm

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Re: [EDH / Commander] Oloro's Pillowfort Tokens
« Respuesta #3 en: Diciembre 17, 2019, 04:14:15 am »
Every time there's a new Oloro deck in the review section, I check the land count and average cmc to see if he's trolling under another name.

What do you mean? Is there an ongoing problem of an Oloro troller?
My King Baby said yes!
I thought you'd never ask
Also, I always spell your name correctly, Red_Wurm.  :)

Please, it is Red

Marshstepper78

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Re: [EDH / Commander] Oloro's Pillowfort Tokens
« Respuesta #4 en: Diciembre 17, 2019, 02:46:12 pm »
This is the third time an Oloro decks pops up with a low land count/inadequate ramp package and a high average cmc. They are posted by different usernames yet all contain a similar googled list of the best Esper control/stax/pillowfort cards with no clear direction and focus (and the aforementioned fundamental problem).

This user reminds me of a scrub we had in our group that refused to up his land count and ramp package because ''lands don't really do anything''. He would always die first without doing anything and complain that he was always mana screwed yet never listened to anyone's advice to increase the land count and ramp. He also used a googled list of ''best of'' cards with zero attention to mana curve and deck focus. Every one of his attempts at a deck was a clunky unthreatening mess despite containing expensive cards (e.g. Blightsteel Colossus).

I believe this is the same user under different names not willing to understand that a proper land count and ramp package is instrumental in actually playing the deck. You can have all the best/expensive cards associated with your commander on EDHREC, but if you have no mana and can't play anything, who cares. He's either a troll or really dense.

Brains911

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Re: [EDH / Commander] Oloro's Pillowfort Tokens
« Respuesta #5 en: Diciembre 18, 2019, 12:09:06 am »
Thank you for the elaborate response.
I just want to say that no I am not some troll using different accounts, this is a legitimate request.
I was trying to in general have all of my cards under $10 each. I know I have a land problem, I have always had a problem of deciding which cards to remove (as to me they are all useful) to put in the more lands though. I try to compromise by having a slightly less land amount by having doubles, or things like the Easier Card section to still be able to get cards out at a lesser mana cost. The copying ability is to make more use out of the cards I already have, or to use the opponents cards against them. Mainly it is to be used as an overall responsive deck to best be able to react to different situations. I was leaning more towards constant repeatable effects rather than 1 time instants (which a lot of people seem to like), causing the cmc to increase.  For soul barrier, its a combination of either costing them life, or taxing them mana so they can cast less stuff. I kept thinking of getting Exquisite Blood but didn't want to put the $20 into it. I am most likely going to get that one though. Fatestitcher was to help protect by stopping a creature from attacking me, or to get more mana, etc. I do like those artifact lands and helm of awakening though. I have won quite a good amount of the games with my group using this deck, wanting to still make it better though, so thank you again for all of the ideas and explanations, I will continue looking into them.
« Última modificación: Diciembre 18, 2019, 02:58:58 am por Brains911 »