So now that over half the set of Ikoria has been spoiled...

[WWolfe]

So now that over half of the set and all of the C20 decks have been spoiled, what do we think?

I'm not overly big on the new mechanics. Mutate is probably the one I would be most likely to build. I expect Keyword Counters to be be a nightmare to keep up with (I can just see someone keeping up with them using different colored dice and everyone having to ask them each time something comes up what is what). Companion to me, ehh. I like the return of Cycling though.

I love Fierce Guardianship & Deadly Rollick, I can see them slotting into decks where my Commander is almost always on the battlefield. The rest of that cycle seems ok.

I love that the Ultimatum cycle is being finished. Not sure how many will slot into any of my decks but them finishing a highly requested cycle gives me hope for others being done.

Overall this set has a few pieces for me but not much. Like someone else said (sorry, it escapes me who it was atm), I'm more of an original Innistrad type person than I am Ikoria.

[WizardSpartan]

Damnit WWolfe, I was gonna do this exact post once Ikoria was fully released.

So about the keywords, I believe booster packs will (or may) have a card where you can punch out cardstock tokens of each keyword. They will most likely be bulk on online stores like TCGPlayer, so it shouldn't be too bad.

I am somewhat interested by the keyword counters, I find mutate to be interesting but too clunky for the Commander format, Companion will tread a fine line between being absolutely broken and being not worth the downside, and a return to cycling is nice.

It's likely the free spell cycle will be rdiculously expensive, which sucks, but I'm really only looking at the white one (Flawless Maneuver) simply because it's really good protection & is another spell that can be found off of Alesha.

The Ultimatum cycle looks interesting. The Abzan one is obviously very good late game in Commander decks, as it basically says return all permanents from your graveyard to the battlefield. The sultai one looks powerful, but the 2 we've seen thus far seem well-balanced (prohibitive, expensive cost for extremely powerful effect).

Companion-wise, the two we got today don't seem as potentially breakable as Gyruda, Doom of Depths & Lurrus of the Dream-Den, while also not being as useless as Umori, the Collector & Keruga, the Macrosage.

In terms of specific cards I'm excited to slot into my Commander decks, I like:
Bastion of Remembrance: Alesha will like another Blood Artist effect. It's hard to remove and comes down with a small body.
Wilt: Excellent replacement for Return to Nature in Ezuri, as being able to cycle away unnecessary removal spells for more relevant cards is incredibly versatile.
General's Enforcer: Another card for Alesha. It makes her hard to block & remove, provides emergency graveyard hate, and can be brought back by her easily.
Flawless Maneuver: I think it competes with Boros Charm for being one of the best protection spells in white.
Fierce Guardianship: I've been looking for a replacement for Misdirection (all the other free counters are to much $$) in Kumena, so fingers crossed it doesn't just skyrocket in price.
Species Specialist: Yet another card for Alesha. It's very versatile (can choose goblin if I have stuff like Sling-Gang Lieutenant out), triggers even off of tokens, and comes back off of Alesha's attack trigger.
Deflecting Swat: Another powerful card that could be slotted into Alesha. I like both this and Maneuver because they can be cast off of Sunforger or if I draw them, they are free protection spells.

I believe it was CleanBelwas who said he was a more of an og Innistrad type person.

[CleanBelwas]

It was me!

I think Ikoria is kind of cool and did a good job with what it was trying to do, but what that was is inherently quite divisive anyway. Either you're in to those classic monster movies and B-movies or you're not. I can see why people would be in to it, I think the execution of that style has been good, but it's hard to get behind clunky mechanics if the flavour isn't to your taste.

For me, give me that gothic horror any day. I love the style and I personally think it translates to the game in a much easier and more satisfying way.

[WWolfe]

Yea I'm expecting there to be punchout keyword tokens too but you have people that use rocks or dice to indicate creature tokens, so I can fully see people doing that for keyword tokens.

[HowlingLotus]

I think you can see the influence on the base Ikoria cards based on EDH pre-cons launching side by side with it. I don't play any eternal formats and only really play standard on Arena, but I have to wonder how this set will be viewed by those that mainly play standard. One opinion is that the card pool is being polluted with cards meant for EDH, but didn't get printed into a pre-con and instead ate a slot in the standard set. Is that too cynical of a take?

For me, personally, I love big dumb creatures - both for mechanics and art (ex: Yidaro, Wandering Monster). There are also some interesting creature types. Overall, however, this set feels more like a "upgrade" one to me (so far). We got some pretty nutty stuff on each day so far and I love considering what would make for good upgrades to existing decks (both regular and EDH).

We already have memes with Otter Jesus, so there is that too.

I don't want to speak too soon, as last time I did something caught my eye again right away, but I'm looking forward to converting The Locust God into Xyris, the Writhing Storm and building Ukkima, Stalking Shadow + Cazur, Ruthless Stalker.

[WWolfe]

Any changed opinions now that the full set has been spoiled?

[terminalgeek]

While I do see the various counters getting out of hand in paper Magic, there are already plenty of cards that give those abilities to creatures but don't require you mark them. So the ability counters might make it easier to remember not to attack into that random 1/1 that now has deathtouch. The punchout cards are nice but gives folks another outlet to be creative if they want, so that's cool too.

I like the idea of mutate because it opens up a lot of possibilities and combinations but I'm reserving judgement until I see how it plays out on Arena.

I do think the side-by-side release is a bit more confusing than the Brawl precons though but WoTC seems to enjoy dumping everything at once on folks. I prefer the subtle tie-ins that they use to do... white zombies in Amonkhet and then an Esper Zombie lord in C18.

[MonteTribal]

I guess I am old and don't like the changes lol.

I kind of dislike the keyword tokens. It makes sense to have them, and I can see this becoming an evergreen mechanic they use as it opens up a LOT of design space to play with. If I play with it, I will probably like it. And it is SUPER easy to track online.

I am not sure how I feel about mutate. I think it is a little confusing and I know people will try to mutate at instant speed when the creature does not have flash. The stacking of abilities is a little dangerous. It feels like a worse version of Augment to me, because augment does not stack so powerfully. A very powerful design, I hope it isn't a mistake.

Compantion I like, but also feel like it is really strong. Always having access to an extra commander (in standard!!) seems like it could be format warping.

[WizardSpartan]

Can we all just let out a sigh of relief that WoTC didn't put out an enchantment that gives all of your creatures mutate (think along the lines of Underworld Breach)?

I honestly expected them to, then immediately have to ban it because it's ridiculously easy to break.

[Marshstepper78]

My opinion of Ikoria hasn't changed: the new mechanics (mutate and keyword counters) remain clunky. I think it's going to be a nightmare keeping track of these counters in multi-player - maybe they were thinking of Arena when they decided to go ahead with the idea. I also find the general aesthetics of the set largely unappealling; it reminds me too much of Battlebond's artistic direction. Kev Walker is killing the alt comic book art though.

Xyris, the Writhing Storm is the only legendary creature in the pre-cons that I am interested in, but in all honesty, I can build something similar with wheel effects with other commanders. Xyris' appeal lies exclusively in my love of wheels and the abusing of wheel effects.

I find the Godzilla variants confusing for nothing, and ultimately uninspired.

Overall, I find Ikoria not super memorable. I find that WotC is creating less new cards and instead are making cards that merely reference pop culture stuff (e.g. Shark Typhoon). Throne of Eldraine was that as well, more nods to characters and stories that already exist instead of presenting us with something totally novel like they used to.

I'm disappointed. This is the first time I have ever felt that an entire expansion was not for me.

[ApothecaryGeist]

I've seen a lot of people lament the keyword tokens.  Especially the need to track which ones are on a particular permanent.  I've seen lots of players, when they make a bunch of tokens, pull out a handful of dice.  "The 6 represents that I have 6 Drakes; the 1 represents that each has a +1/+1 counter; the 2 represents that each started as a 2/2."  Nothing represents tapped-ness.  Nothing represents color.  And after they make three or four different kinds this way, it becomes hard to discern which are Drakes and which are Goblins.  It's just a pile of dice.  I am certain players will use dice to represent the keyword tokens.  Most decks will only utilize one or two specific tokens.  This could be accomplished utilizing different colored/sized dice.  Crystalline Giant is the only card that really pushes the limit here.  Hopefully players who play Crystalline Giant will use the punchouts or some other very easy to discern method. 


My only question about keyword counters ... Will these obsolete most auras and many ability granting instants/sorceries?  Auras weren't very good to begin with.  Granting vigilance or menace or flying until end of turn is what many instants/sorceries do.  Now I can give my creature a keyword counter that can't be removed by enchantment removal, and it lasts indefinitely.


I like the variant artworks in this set.  I like the Godzilla artwork.  But I am confused by the card naming.  These have "Godzilla" names prominently displayed in the card name box.  But then there's a tiny little name box beneath that with the "real" name.  And the Buy-A-Box promo only has the Godzilla variant.  Yet it has a different name that exists on no other card.  Weird.


@Marshstepper78: I'm not a fan of Sharknado the movie.  But I do like Sharknado the card (Shark Typhoon). 

[Aetherium Slinky]

My only question about keyword counters ... Will these obsolete most auras and many ability granting instants/sorceries?  Auras weren't very good to begin with.  Granting vigilance or menace or flying until end of turn is what many instants/sorceries do.  Now I can give my creature a keyword counter that can't be removed by enchantment removal, and it lasts indefinitely.

Instants won't go away. When properly costed they will still be useful combat tricks. Sorceries... Well, Assault Strobe is sometimes pretty good as a finisher. Beyond that I don't know.

[Morganator 2.0]

I'm actually fine with keyword counters, on the condition that they don't get printed again. The cards we have for keyword counters have increased mana costs, making me prefer to use auras anyway.

I fell the same way about mutate. Most of the mutate abilities rely on you mutating the same card more than once. They're such a high mana cost that it just isn't worth mutating only once (exception being the apex cycle).

My problem is with the companion ability. This seems like commander being forced onto other formats. And making companion the exception to the "outside the game" rules of commander seems weird.

Sidenote: Did you guys notice the creature types of the apex cycle? If it's white it's a cat, blue is elemental, green is beast, black nightmare, and red dinosaur. Best of all, the creature type appears in the same order as their respective mana cost.

Brokkos, Apex of Forever
Illuna, Apex of Wishes
Nethroi, Apex of Death
Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt
Vadrok, Apex of Thunder

[WWolfe]

The only thing that seeing the full set has changed about my thoughts is that Mutate isn't something I'll be interested in after all. Like Morganator said, it's pricey and they want the creature to mutate more than once, I can't see it being useful in the way I had initially expected/hoped.

There's a few pieces for me here and there (the previously mentioned Deadly Rollick & Fierce Guardianship from C20 and like three cards from the main set I'll playtest), but that's all that has my interest. I'm not even digging the alternate arts for this set and I'm usually a person that loves good alt art for blinging out a deck. I'm hoping Core 2021 has more for me than this set did.

eta- Zaxara may finally be the hydra commander I've been waiting years for, I may attempt to build that at some point though I'm not sure I really want another Sultai commander.

[Slyvester12]

I think, out of everything I've seen in Ikoria, the only cards to interest me are Zirda, the Dawnwaker, Jegantha, the Wellspring, Colossification, and Brokkos, Apex of Forever.