Rule question - flipcards with land on one side

[Akira Foxmind]

Greetings,

it's 9 a.m. in europe and I'll start the day by having stupid questions again. 

Thinking of the new flipcards with lands on one side, there are some ruling questions coming to my mind: (taking Sea Gate Restoration // Sea Gate, Reborn as the example here)

1. If I read the card information from wizards correctly the spell-side is always up front, right?
2. So if you reveal it with an Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow trigger it would deal 7 damage?
3. If you have Courser of Kruphix online and Sea Gate Restoration // Sea Gate, Reborn is on top, am I allowed to play it as a land? (refering to 1. I would think I can't...)

Waiting for you to enlighten my day. 

[CleanBelwas]

From what I remember, the front side (shown by the white circle rather than the coloured one) is what the card is considered in all zones unless it has come in to play as the reverse side. It's only when you play it that you can choose for it to come in to play as the reversed side.

They have been designed such that the reverse is always a land (much like the transform cards from Ixalan). The front sides vary between lands and spells, but for your example yes, the front side is the spell side.

It would trigger for yuriko and you can play it off Courser. Courser just lets you play lands from the top of your library, and if the top of your library is a MDFC, it has at least one land side and can therefore be played. Taken from the rulings:

"If an effect allows you to play a land or cast a spell from among a group of cards, you may play or cast a modal double-faced card with any face that fits the criteria of that effect."

They essentially work like other flip cards. They are the front side in all zones, and the front side is shown by the side with the white circle. The only real difference is the way in which they are "flipped". Because the reverse is always a land, you just have the choice to play it as such (and playing lands doesn't use the stack of course, so no shenanigans there to be had). There are  no additional clauses that need to be met like werewolves or meld cards or ixalan flip lands. Just your own choice.

Also, as an additional point, things like expedition map can't go and fetch a spell/land to hand to then be played as a spell as it's still a spell and not a land while it's in your library.



EDIT
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Updated to display accurate information for future readers to save going down the thread. Originally I thought you couldn't play MDFCs off courser, but I looked in to it deeper and it turns out you can.

[Akira Foxmind]

It would trigger for yuriko but you couldn't play it off courser. You could play the ones that are lands both sides off courser though, and pick what side you wanted as it entered.

Thanks for the light. That's pretty much what I assumed. 

The front sides vary between lands and spells, but for your example yes, the front side is the spell side.

Do the front sides really vary? I didn't notice that.
That might be important in some scenarios. Thanks again.

[CleanBelwas]

By vary, I just mean that some of the MDFCs are just lands with one colour on one side and one colour on the other. The rest are all spells on the front and lands on the back.

[Akira Foxmind]

By vary, I just mean that some of the MDFCs are just lands with one colour on one side and one colour on the other. The rest are all spells on the front and lands on the back.

Oh you just meant the 'real' fliplands, the pathways. Misunderstood you there, sorry. 
I thought you meant the spell and land sides would be swapped for some cards.

[CleanBelwas]

By vary, I just mean that some of the MDFCs are just lands with one colour on one side and one colour on the other. The rest are all spells on the front and lands on the back.

Oh you just meant the 'real' fliplands, the pathways. Misunderstood you there, sorry. 
I thought you meant the spell and land sides would be swapped for some cards.

Yea dude, sorry, that's exactly what I meant. My initial post didn't make that clear, my bad.

[CleanBelwas]

OK so I've rewatched the LRR judge video for MDFCs and read the rulings and I think I was wrong in the Courser point. Taken from the rulings:

"If an effect allows you to play a land or cast a spell from among a group of cards, you may play or cast a modal double-faced card with any face that fits the criteria of that effect".

I would interpret that to mean "the top of your library is a group of 1 card(s)" and you can therefore play it from the Courser.

I think the point about expedition map still stands though, but I'm looking for more concrete info. Will update here if I find anything that is different from what has already been stated.

UPDATE:

Taken from the Zendikar Rising release notes article:

"So, if you're searching your library for a land card, you can't find a modal double-faced card whose front face isn't a land card."

I believe the Courser thing is still true though, you can play MDFCs with spells on the front from Courser. It has to do with playing a land being a special action that doesn't use the stack. It's no different to playing it from your hand. You're able to play a land, and if you have MDFCs, you can play one of those as the land side. For what it's worth, you can also play them from your graveyard as lands even if the front side is a spell.

[Akira Foxmind]

OK so I've rewatched the LRR judge video for MDFCs and read the rulings and I think I was wrong in the Courser point. Taken from the rulings:

"If an effect allows you to play a land or cast a spell from among a group of cards, you may play or cast a modal double-faced card with any face that fits the criteria of that effect".

I would interpret that to mean "the top of your library is a group of 1 card(s)" and you can therefore play it from the Courser.

I think the point about expedition map still stands though, but I'm looking for more concrete info. Will update here if I find anything that is different from what has already been stated.

UPDATE:

Taken from the Zendikar Rising release notes article:

"So, if you're searching your library for a land card, you can't find a modal double-faced card whose front face isn't a land card."

I believe the Courser thing is still true though, you can play MDFCs with spells on the front from Courser. It has to do with playing a land being a special action that doesn't use the stack. It's no different to playing it from your hand. You're able to play a land, and if you have MDFCs, you can play one of those as the land side. For what it's worth, you can also play them from your graveyard as lands even if the front side is a spell.

Wow, thanks for the efford you put into this. 

Tbh if you're right and one can play the MDFC as land from the top but can't tutor for it with Expedition Map, I find it really confusing. For me both actions are checking the cardtype of a card where in one case the back side counts and in the other case it doesn't But that might be just me, who is not best friends with advanced stack knowledge, if that really is the point that makes the difference here.

[BoBWiz]

OK, thank you very much!

Doublecheck: This Courser Thing is true for Radha, Hearth of Keld as well?

best
Stephan

[Hyedris]

Tbh if you're right and one can play the MDFC as land from the top but can't tutor for it with Expedition Map, I find it really confusing. For me both actions are checking the cardtype of a card where in one case the back side counts and in the other case it doesn't But that might be just me, who is not best friends with advanced stack knowledge, if that really is the point that makes the difference here.

I'd stick with this: if an effect allow you to PLAY a land, you can play the MDFC as a land. But in any other cases, it is not a land.

Like Mystic Forge lets you play creatures with morph from the top of your library, but you can't search for them with Sanctum of Ugin because they are normally not a colorless card.

[CleanBelwas]

No worries dude. I love these nuances with the rules. I find them really interesting.

I'm with you though, it feels weird.

From what I've read, I believe it's to do with playing lands being a special action. I've come to think of it like this:

In my main phase, if I haven't already and the stack is empty, I may play a land. With MDFCs, I can do this if either side is a land and I can choose any land sides while performing this action. Usually I can just do this from my hand, but there are effects that allow me to do this from different places too. Courser of Kruphix or Radha, Heart of Keld allow me to perform this action from the top of my library. Crucible of Worlds or Ramunap Excavator let me do this from my graveyard. However, the action of playing the land remains the same. It's still just playing a land, and MDFCs let you play them as lands, so their ability to allow you to choose is relevant no matter when you are playing the land from.

Searching for a land is not a special action. It's no different from tutoring for anything, it's just that the effect that lets you do it specifies that it has to be a land. You can only consider both faces of a MDFC when it comes to playing a land, otherwise you consider the front face only (or the face up side if it's already in play).

That's how I'm understanding it based on what I've read and watched this morning. Hope that makes sense. I agree it's a little unintuitive at first, but I feel like it kind of makes sense now I've got my head around it.

Hyedris has put it far more succinctly than my overcomplicated ass did.

If an effect allow you to PLAY a land, you can play the MDFC as a land. But in any other cases, it is not a land.

[Akira Foxmind]

I'd stick with this: if an effect allow you to PLAY a land, you can play the MDFC as a land. But in any other cases, it is not a land.

Like Mystic Forge lets you play creatures with morph from the top of your library, but you can't search for them with Sanctum of Ugin because they are normally not a colorless card.

That sounds like an easy way do explain it. Tought, I'll try to remember that 'this action does not use the stack' as well. 

No worries dude. I love these nuances with the rules. I find them really interesting.

Anyway it's pretty time consuming and you are doing this for others (or for you, but because of others). That is a great attitude and very honorable in my opinion. 

From what I've read, I believe it's to do with playing lands being a special action. I've come to think of it like this:

In my main phase, if I haven't already and the stack is empty, I may play a land. With MDFCs, I can do this if either side is a land and I can choose any land sides while performing this action. Usually I can just do this from my hand, but there are effects that allow me to do this from different places too. Courser of Kruphix or Radha, Heart of Keld allow me to perform this action from the top of my library. Crucible of Worlds or Ramunap Excavator let me do this from my graveyard. However, the action of playing the land remains the same. It's still just playing a land, and MDFCs let you play them as lands, so their ability to allow you to choose is relevant no matter when you are playing the land from.

Searching for a land is not a special action. It's no different from tutoring for anything, it's just that the effect that lets you do it specifies that it has to be a land. You can only consider both faces of a MDFC when it comes to playing a land, otherwise you consider the front face only (or the face up side if it's already in play).

That's how I'm understanding it based on what I've read and watched this morning. Hope that makes sense. I agree it's a little unintuitive at first, but I feel like it kind of makes sense now I've got my head around it.

Hyedris has put it far more succinctly than my overcomplicated ass did.

Yes, his version was very short and precise. But I did understand you as well. My comprehensive skills are way better, than my articulative skills.