Why are Proxies so relatively rare?

[3Zwergeimtrenchcoat]

Hi,

My questions are:
1. Why are proxies not used more often?
2. why do you personally use or do not use proxies?
3. Do you have any Tipps for making extra cool and pretty proxies?



I mainly do use proxies.

My Reasoning:

I really like to build proxy decks. I print my cards in my local copy shop using Mtg- and glue them on basic lands. I really like real cards as well and also spend money on them. But using proxies gives me unlimited freedom to construct what I want without any form of budget constraint
or bad conscience for spending so much on magic. And I can choose the prettiest artworks as well.

Magic cards are overpriced cardboard rectangles. Our Money mainly flows into the pocket of shareholder capitalists.
I think a new magic deck, optimized or not, should not cost more than 40 bucks.

I am the only person in my play group who mainly relies on proxies. And also effectively the only Person to do so at local events.

Also I think the the value of Magic card is a bubble that my burst one day as Wotc Modell is ever lasting exponential growth and therefore a soft rotation of  People will not buy into magic indefinitely.  Therefore I assume all card prices eventually will crash.

[Landale]

Hi,

My questions are:
1. Why are proxies not used more often?
2. why do you personally use or do not use proxies?
3. Do you have any Tipps for making extra cool and pretty proxies?

1. Not everyone is accepting of the use of proxies, and even when they are what's accepted varies so you'll generally just find people sticking to what they have.
2. Same as above. I have all of one deck running any proxies, and that's taking a marker to the Dominaria United common dual lands to make them the original duals (Idyllic Beachfront -> Tundra etc.) in my Rukarumel, Biologist sliver deck since it needs the consistency and those lands are very commonly accepted proxies. Occasionally I will make use of the helper cards intended for double faced cards as a proxy placeholder for good cards I've lucked into like Smothering Tithe so I can have it in multiple decks without shelling out for more copies.
3. No.

[Morganator 2.0]

1. Why are proxies not used more often?

Game stores that are part of the Wizards Play Network are not allowed to have proxies in their store. Therefore, many stores do not allow proxies, whether they are sanctioned events or not. You can often sneak in proxies at casual play days, but that's all.

2. why do you personally use or do not use proxies?

I use them for horde decks and that's about it. I've never felt the need to use proxies beyond that. I've never had an issue with buying singles of the cards I want.

3. Do you have any Tipps for making extra cool and pretty proxies?

Use Deckstats. Your decklist has a button for "Print Proxies", abd they are higher resolution than any other proxy printing site I've seen. Also they print at the right size.

[Kuschi]

1. Magic is a collectible-card-game and therefore collecting is a huge part for most players. Its also possible to have fun playing the game with a low budget with preconstruted decks, pre release events and such.

2. I personaly dont like using proxies because it tends to lead to powercreep. When I have to spend actual money on cards I consider my options way more and also think about what I want in the deck more carefully. That way I get to enjoy playing my decks more than I would with proxies.
That said I am also an edh player so its not always in my interest to built the most competitive decks.

[EMaxxi]

EDH players I know generally accept proxies.

As I built more and more decks, my philosophy has been to own 1 copy of each card and then make proxy copies for my different decks. I rarely proxy cards I don't own bcs I already have way too many cards I want to play, and not enough slots in my decks, so having access to all cards would lead to decision paralysis.

[ApothecaryGeist]

so having access to all cards would lead to decision paralysis.

I agree 100%

[Morganator 2.0]

so having access to all cards would lead to decision paralysis.

I agree 100%

Right... because you own 1 copy of every card in existence. Are you still able to keep that up with all the product overload?

And do you ever decide to not buy a second copy of a card and just proxy it instead?

[ApothecaryGeist]

Right... because you own 1 copy of every card in existence. Are you still able to keep that up with all the product overload?

And do you ever decide to not buy a second copy of a card and just proxy it instead?

I wondered if there would be anyone reading that post who remembered the depth of my collection.

I did not buy the Honor Among Thieves Secret Lair.  I am awaiting the Universes Within versions and hoping the prices will drop.
I do not yet have the entire set from Lost Caverns of Ixalan.
Aside from those,  I have still kept up.

That said, I do plan to slow down my purchasing in 2024.  Along with the product overload, individual prices of each product are steadily increasing.
I am still hopeful, as singles prices have been bottoming out lately.  So I'll see how it goes.  I just may be steadily several sets behind.


Not sure what you're asking about the proxies.  For most cards, I only allow myself 1 copy of any given card across all my decks.  There is almost always an alternative.  Once I have obtained a playset of a single card through Commander Precons, I will allow myself multiples.  This gets me Command Tower, Sol Ring, and Arcane Signet in every deck.  Among several other staples.  Aside from that, if I want a card in a second deck, I will either deconstruct the first deck or find an alternative for one ofthem.  There is almost always a viable alternative.

[AlltheTokens]

I used to proxy cards into decks as long as I owned at least one copy of the card.  For the most part I have stopped doing this with a few exceptions.  I will proxy a card to test it in a deck when I am not sure if I really want to run it. I will Proxy Timetwister, because the price is crazy and my collector’s edition copy is noticeable even through sleeves.  I do not object to my playgroup using proxy cards, mostly because I can afford to buy a lot more than the rest of them.  I like playing with and against all the broken jank that commander has to offer.

[anjinsan]

"To proxy or not" is a topic that comes up on Reddit like every week. If you have a hunt around I'm sure you can find a lot of lengthy discussions rehashing the same reasons over and over.

1. Why are proxies not used more often?

How often would you expect proxies to be used (vs how often they are used)? It's not like they are an unheard-of concept.
There are various reasons people don't use proxies, some of them sensible, others phenomenally stupid, and some as simple as "I have the actual WotC card" (so why make a proxy?).

2. why do you personally use or do not use proxies?

I play online, so I use what are effectively entirely digital proxies. I do this because (a) I'm not paying that much for real cards and (b) I play online, where you can't actually use real cards anyway (unless doing webcam/Spelltable/whatever).

3. Do you have any Tipps for making extra cool and pretty proxies?

Nope. 

Magic cards are overpriced cardboard rectangles. Our Money mainly flows into the pocket of shareholder capitalists.
I think a new magic deck, optimized or not, should not cost more than 40 bucks.

This is true. I'm all for supporting the industry; I want WotC to make enough money that they keep producing the cards! On the other hand, their model is such that a lot of the time I can't actually give them money for cards, I have to go to a secondary market where many of them are hugely overpriced. At that point, I'd rather make my own. There's no real reason for any card to cost more than a basic land, after all, it's purely artificial scarcity.

[stuffnsuch]

Here are a few reasons that apply to at least some people on why they don't really go all in on the proxying thing:

1. It's more work to make a decent proxy than to buy a card.
2. Some proxying is illegal (for instance making a proxy that utilizes any art that does not belong to you) and most people don't fully understand the nuances of copyright law and would rather avoid the issue.
3. It's genuinely fun to build from your own card collection and limit yourself to what you personally own.
4. Proxying is generally frowned upon by society.
5. Using a deck full of proxies at an LGS may be considered disrespectful to those trying to run the store and sell cards.
6. Some players are not okay with playing against those using proxies, and no one wants to miss an opportunity to play just over that.
7. People tend to get more salty over loosing to an OP card that was proxied than to one that was legitimate.
8. Proxies aren't eligible in many formal and official events.
9. There is enough controversy over proxies that some people would rather just stay out of the issue.
10. Proxying can be seen as morally wrong.
11. The official cards look nicer to some.
12. Using some proxies that have a difference in thickness, card size, weight, gloss, etc. could be construed as cheating.
13. People have a fear that proxies will undermine the financial success of the game and cause their local card store to close, WotC to cut back on product, or MTG to end altogether.
14. People fear that encouraging proxies will undermine the investment value they've already put into their collection.
15. People like having an official copy of the cards they like to play with.
16. People don't want to have to update and adjust their decks every 5 minutes, so they only use cards that they already have, rather than feeling pressure to adjust every time a new card exists.
17. Avoiding proxies creates greater diversity in experiences.
18. Proxying particularly expensive/powerful cards can feel unfair when playing against someone that isn't really into proxying.
19. Proxying can require artistic skill to make it even functional.
20. A lot of official cards are much cheaper than it would cost to proxy them.

[anjinsan]

2. Some proxying is illegal (for instance making a proxy that utilizes any art that does not belong to you) and most people don't fully understand the nuances of copyright law and would rather avoid the issue.

Speaking of the nuances of copyright law... is there any where in the world that that's true? Copying someone's work, claiming it as your own, and then trying to sell it - that's copyright infringement. Putting it on a random bit of cardboard that you keep purely for your own use, not so much.

4. Proxying is generally frowned upon by society.

Is this true? People might believe it to be the case, in which case it's still a potential reason for them not to proxy... I certainly think that proxying is frowned upon by subsets of society, perhaps a given LGS or similar, which is perhaps just as bad, but society as a whole (at least, the small fraction of society who even know that this is for some reason an actual issue for people who enjoy this specific card game) is I think more split.