Taking Sol Ring out of my commander decks - a reasoning.

[Kelly]

Hello folks,

I'll start by saying I don't play cEDH, so this is an argument for all decks I run, which cap out around power level 8.  As a player, I like strong themes and tight efficiency, but most importantly I enjoy a game that has variety, swings and surprises.  Winning is great and fun, but not at all costs and to that end, I've always felt Sol Ring was a necessary evil, obviously busted but so ubiquitous that it's become a standard game piece in the format.  I'd thought of taking it out simply on moral grounds, but I'd just put myself at a slight disadvantage and nobody cares, so for years I've just accepted it as part of the game, feeling slightly sheepish when I was lucky enough to get it in my opening hand.  Yet, over time I think things have changed enough that I've been able to reason Sol Ring out of my decks - not just because I wanted to, but because it actually makes sense to do so for me now.

The positives for including Sol Ring are obvious, but from the casual commander perspective, over time I've found enough positive reasons to take it out:

1. Threat level & Utility.  When I need it most in the early game, playing Sol Ring puts my game plan on blast.  Later in the game when looking for answers and win-cons, Sol Ring doesn't offer much.

2. Versatility.  There are many versatile 3-cost rocks available these days (Cursed Mirror, Machine God's Effigy, Eye of Ojer Taq, Glittering Stockpile, Misleading Signpost, etc) that ramp innocuously early game and offer value at any stage in the game thereafter.  For the casual game, I find these all better than Sol Ring.

3. Theme/Fun.  I often anguish over which cards make the final cut in my decks.  In light of the above, cutting Sol Ring suddenly seemed like a great idea instead of cutting something I wanted to play, but lacked for a slot.  Getting that last card in sometimes feels like the cherry on top.   

4. Personal Identity.  It's not just Sol Ring here, there are a lot of cards that could fit into almost any deck that shares a color with it.  Personally, I'd only consider 'good stuff' pieces if they fit the theme I'm building. 

5. Philosophy.  In the end, is it really important to have more wins than your friends?  I think not.  It's the comradery, the gathering.  If I can pull off a win in style and get some laughs from the table, I'll cherish the memory.  Maybe your group is totally down for degenerate MTG, but if it isn't, then what does Sol Ring really adding?

That's my piece.  I'm 100% sure many will not see it the same, but I'm comfortable with that.  I wouldn't expect anyone else to pull it out, but I will focus them when they drop it turn one

[fire5167]

Hi Kelly,

Yeah, I have been thinking about doing similarly. I really like to tinker with decks and improve them (as opposed to brewing new ones from scratch) and I always have days when I feel super idealistic and remove sol ring from my decks, but the very next week I can't justify not playing it when I've spent hundreds of dollars to make it as powerful as possible. Your points are valid... but sol ring is just so good. The question is does its power outweigh it's homogenization and boring play patterns

[jlutzxinc]

I already don't play Sol Ring and never will.  I don't need it, and if I did there's the way more fair Sol Talisman.

[Dactylartha]

I took it out of my decks with commanders less than 6 cmc and not my top power level decks and I'll never go back. Games are way more fun not having it.

[Kelly]

Hey, that's cool others have come to a similar conclusion (or close to it!).  Another bonus is I now have 20 copies of it I can trade in toward MH3.

[Kelly]

I already don't play Sol Ring and never will.  I don't need it, and if I did there's the way more fair Sol Talisman.

I'd still go for a good utility 3 drop rock, but Sol Talisman is nice in Prosper for the free treasure when it finally resolves.  I believe if were suspend 2, it would get more love.

[Valmias]

I took it out of my decks with commanders less than 6 cmc and not my top power level decks and I'll never go back. Games are way more fun not having it.

Agree with this. Some commanders do need the boost if they want to come down early enough to be relevant, especially those released before they were designing with this format in mind.

[anjinsan]

Sol Ring is so busted that IMO pretty much the only reason not to play it is because you’re deliberately handicapping your deck to be at a certain strength, same as (budget notwithstanding) the likes of Mana Crypt. Well, that and personal preference, but that’s entirely subjective.

Apparent threat is a valid concern. If you drop Sol Ring t1 you kinda become the archenemy. But, the same could be said about any cards. Vanilla 2/2s are less scary than actually good cards, but you aren’t more likely to win the game with them - they’re less scary for a reason. We still have to do stuff that threatens wins if we want to win. Actually, the irrationality around Sol Ring means that it’s probably one of the least scary cards relative to the advantage it actually gives you. People see a Mana Crypt and they flip out; they see a Sol Ring and they’re like, ah, a classic EDH card! (It’s perhaps why I’ve never been in a game that purportedly banned fast mana that actually banned Sol Ring)

Versatility is a fair point, but Sol Ring is so powerful that I doubt very much that one of those cool rocks is actually better. I’ll often swap some 2-mana rock for one of those, or add one as well as my regular ramp, but none of them let me play Smothering Tithe on turn 2.

Theme and identity are valid… except that this is EDH, we’re not not playing ramp. So, why not play the best ramp? If you’ve cut all signets and talismans too then maybe that’s another matter but such decks are rarely viable at anything other than quite low power levels.

For the record, if I were the king of Magic I would 100% ban Sol Ring (and probably a lot of other cards besides….) and I certainly don’t think there’s anything wrong with removing it, but I think most of the arguments boil down to houserules or personal preference; it’s not mechanically stronger not to run it in almost(?) all situations.

[Aetherium Slinky]

If everyone plays Sol Ring and mulligans up to 3 times there's a 26% chance you see a T1 Sol Ring. If the decks at the table are otherwise void of fast mana it creates a very lopsided start / game.

That means about one quarter of all your games are "ruined" by Sol Ring if you don't like playing archenemy chosen at random.

Math nerdout moment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/120jvvk/to_sol_ring_or_not_to_sol_ring_variance_and/

I for one don't like that which means I'm taking Sol Ring out unless there's a good reason to include it. I think all my paper decks either have extra synergies, enable combos, or have other fast mana. (Which means I do play Sol Ring...)

[Kelly]

Sol Ring is so busted that IMO pretty much the only reason not to play it is because you’re deliberately handicapping your deck to be at a certain strength, same as (budget notwithstanding) the likes of Mana Crypt. Well, that and personal preference, but that’s entirely subjective.

Apparent threat is a valid concern. If you drop Sol Ring t1 you kinda become the archenemy. But, the same could be said about any cards. Vanilla 2/2s are less scary than actually good cards, but you aren’t more likely to win the game with them - they’re less scary for a reason. We still have to do stuff that threatens wins if we want to win. Actually, the irrationality around Sol Ring means that it’s probably one of the least scary cards relative to the advantage it actually gives you. People see a Mana Crypt and they flip out; they see a Sol Ring and they’re like, ah, a classic EDH card! (It’s perhaps why I’ve never been in a game that purportedly banned fast mana that actually banned Sol Ring)

Versatility is a fair point, but Sol Ring is so powerful that I doubt very much that one of those cool rocks is actually better. I’ll often swap some 2-mana rock for one of those, or add one as well as my regular ramp, but none of them let me play Smothering Tithe on turn 2.

Theme and identity are valid… except that this is EDH, we’re not not playing ramp. So, why not play the best ramp? If you’ve cut all signets and talismans too then maybe that’s another matter but such decks are rarely viable at anything other than quite low power levels.

For the record, if I were the king of Magic I would 100% ban Sol Ring (and probably a lot of other cards besides….) and I certainly don’t think there’s anything wrong with removing it, but I think most of the arguments boil down to houserules or personal preference; it’s not mechanically stronger not to run it in almost(?) all situations.

Hey, thanks for your detailed consideration.  No doubt, Sol Ring 'does the thing' (ie ramp, specifically) better, especially early game, yet that's also the crux isn't it?  In the end you can only ask yourself if you feel you need the Ring^TM or if you would prefer seeing something else come up instead.

[Kelly]

I took it out of my decks with commanders less than 6 cmc and not my top power level decks and I'll never go back. Games are way more fun not having it.

Agree with this. Some commanders do need the boost if they want to come down early enough to be relevant, especially those released before they were designing with this format in mind.

FWIW, I recently built an Ovika deck where I've chosen 11 rocks from 2-4 cost that smooth out the 7 cmc cast and bring utility.  Additionally, it's worth considering inclusions such as Solemn Simulacrum, Big Score, Charming Scoundrel, Irencrag Feat or even Ojer Pakpatiq dying and leaving a land are ramp curving out behind a 7 cmc target.  So far, Ovika has reliably dropped ahead of schedule.

(https://deckstats.net/decks/160835/2927215-ovika-ramp-v0-6)

[anjinsan]

I for one don't like that which means I'm taking Sol Ring out unless there's a good reason to include it. I think all my paper decks either have extra synergies, enable combos, or have other fast mana. (Which means I do play Sol Ring...)

Personally, I agree - but that only really works if everyone’s taking it out.

In the end you can only ask yourself if you feel you need the Ring^TM or if you would prefer seeing something else come up instead.

I “prefer” seeing it come up than most other mana rocks - because it’s just stronger than them.

Now, I’d prefer games that didn’t have those at all (heck, I’m minded to believe - whatever anyone else around here thinks - that the 2-mana rocks are already too much)… but I’d also rather that all the decks are on a level playing field.

I do think it’s a bit ridiculous when people ban fast mana in their games but not Sol Ring “because everyone has it”.

[Jesterskull]

.....kinda the same thing with Lightning Greaves.

There is just more and more cards that are doing similar things.

Plus there are more equipment and other spells that can fit a certain deck type better.

Aka with me (Pip-Boy 3000), + Aegis of the Legion, Thopter Engineer, Uncivil Unrest

[robort]

1st what are degenerate things??? Without a clear concise definition because all the groups I play in do something degenerate in one way or another. But since this is about sol ring then nah that isn't close to degenerate at all. So yeah focus on me when I drop a sol ring on turn 1 while I focus back on you which then player 2 and 3 will win because of our poor threat assessment. I prefer to see what happens in subsequent turns after you play the sol ring. Because instantly thinking someone's deck is a threat because of a turn 1 sol ring is definitely the wrong mind set. There have been games excluding sol ring where someone has plethora of mana with nothing to do with it. I've also seen the opposite of someone playing multiple turns of land, go but that doesn't mean they aren't or can't be a threat with other times they just aren't doing anything on such turns. I tend to put more focus on how optimized/synergistic your deck is then worry about your turn 1 sol ring.

[robort]

If everyone plays Sol Ring and mulligans up to 3 times there's a 26% chance you see a T1 Sol Ring. If the decks at the table are otherwise void of fast mana it creates a very lopsided start / game.

That means about one quarter of all your games are "ruined" by Sol Ring if you don't like playing archenemy chosen at random.

Math nerdout moment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/120jvvk/to_sol_ring_or_not_to_sol_ring_variance_and/

I for one don't like that which means I'm taking Sol Ring out unless there's a good reason to include it. I think all my paper decks either have extra synergies, enable combos, or have other fast mana. (Which means I do play Sol Ring...)

This point is invalid because it reminds me of an old saying I used to use "if" the queen of England had balls then she would be king. Then "if" everyone mulligans 3 times there is definitely something wrong all 4 players. I would be asking questions such as "Did you build your deck right' or "How many lands are in your deck", "are you shuffling correctly" and so forth. Even at my casual play groups if you are mulliganing at least 3 times we do ask questions. We actually do want to start a game. So "if" is also highly unlikely to happen. But let's say it does happen and again Player A doesn't quite have the shuffling capabilities to shuffle his/her deck just yet. Yet while having a 25% won't guarantee to put someone ahead. For all we know they also have 0 or 1 land in hand with that sol ring hence the game wouldn't come close to being lopsided cause of sol ring. They could also have 4 lands in hand along with that sol ring (which again all that mana with nothing to do with it). Yet now with your scenario those other 75% of those games mean they won't have a sol ring with the possiblity of mulligan again. Also that means there could be 5,10,20 games straight where your "if" scenario is applied and sol ring doesn't show up in any of those games. Then again there could be 5,10,20 games straight where it does show up. A turn 1 sol ring has just become the boogy man of magic that's all.