Deckstats Forum
English-language Forums => Deck Reviews => Topic started by: Borg on August 02, 2017, 11:00:12 pm
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This opening post always contains the most up to date version.
https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves
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love it
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Yea that seems to be a very effective combo :) I also made a eldrazi deck, which was a little too slow. But with the inspiration (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Inspiration) of your deck, it could be as good as yours maybe :)
Have a look if you want to:
https://deckstats.net/decks/90706/781137-legendary-eldrazi-artifact-com?saved=1&lng=de
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Hi Snook-Zulu
Your deck looks solid enough, but as you mentioned, it's not extremely fast.
The most important reasons for that are imho
1. Your deck is missing the biggest mana boosters : Priest of Titania (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Priest+of+Titania), Elvish Archdruid (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Archdruid) and Gaea's Cradle (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gaea%27s+Cradle).
2. With 4 Worldly Tutor (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Worldly+Tutor) and 4 Emrakul main deck one of them is more likely to end up in my hand. You have scrying and card drawing ability but I prefer to just tutor for him.
3. Joraga Warcaller (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Joraga+Warcaller) is a very strong alternative if you have one in opening hand or draw it early, which raises the number of key cards to 12 ( Tutor, Emrakul, Warcaller )
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Revision 38 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-eldrazi-elves?revision=37)
Added/removed cards:
-1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Rofellos%2C+Llanowar+Emissary)
Changed amounts:
+1 Reclamation Sage (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Reclamation+Sage)
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Revision 39 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-eldrazi-elves?revision=38)
Added/removed cards:
+2 Cavern of Souls (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Cavern+of+Souls)
Changed amounts:
-2 Forest (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Forest)
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You should not run 4 Emrakuls, 2 is a better choice, I would switch to 2 Emrakul and 2 Ulamog. Especially with 4 worldly tutors
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Reasons for Emrakul over Ulamog :
Emrakul cannot be countered, Ulamog can.
Emrakul cannot be targeted by colored spells, Ulamog can.
Emrakul gives you an extra turn to finish the game right there ( Annihilator 6 ), Ulamog doesn't.
More than enough reason to choose Emrakul over Ulamog imo.
I max them out ( 4x Emrakul + 4x Worldly Tutor (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Worldly+Tutor) ) because your odds (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Odds) of drawing them can never be high enough ;)
My alternative win creature is Joraga Warcaller (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Joraga+Warcaller).
Ulamog is a fine creature as well, but I feel I don't need him in this deck.
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Except the odds (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Odds) can be too high. You only want to draw ONE, because that's all you need. And Emrakul costs 15 mana. It can easily turn into dead (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dead) draws and screw your game
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Against control, you're screwed either way, they counter your Ramp. Who cares if Ulamog can be regretted by spells? He's indestructible, once he hits he's not going anywhere quickly
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Just run 4 Prowling Serpopard (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Prowling+Serpopard) in the sideboard for the control matchup
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And there are too many 1 drop mana dorks. What are you gonna do against burn?
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Deck: Eldrazi Elves (https://deckstats.net/decks/86132/801243-eldrazi-elves/en) (https://deckstats.net/mana/m/w.gif) (https://deckstats.net/mana/m/g.gif)
This is a modified version of your deck. It splashes white to protect your ramp from burn decks, and can cast an u counterable Ulamog. The sideboard has 4 Prowling Serpopard (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Prowling+Serpopard) for the control matchup
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Hi Soren,
We obviously have different approaches to these situations.
Burn is the natural enemy of Elves. To offset that somewhat you turn defensively, meaning you weaken your deck overall against 5 of 6 colors ( including colorless ) to make it stronger against 1 color.
I think that is not a good strategy for a couple of reasons.
1- I think it's safe to say that all 6 colors are played roughly even : this means that by including 4 copies of Absolute Law (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Absolute+Law) in your deck you severely handicap your deck for 5 out of every 6 match-ups. Absolute Law (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Absolute+Law) is a 100% dead (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dead) card against every opponent not running Red. So you need this ( on average ) in only 1 out of every six match-ups. I don't think that is worth the sacrifice.
2- By adding these defensive cards you weaken the overall beatdown power of the deck.
3- There's no guarantee you'll draw Absolute law (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Absolute+Law) when you need them. You have no way to tutor for them. What are you going to do when you face burn but you don't have one in opening hand or don't draw one within the first three turns ? Are you going to take a mulligan and waste a possible good hand ? Are you going to stop casting Elves until you get an Absolute Law (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Absolute+Law).
4- Even with Absolute Law (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Absolute+Law), you still might lose.
I take a different approach.
I make the deck as deadly and as fast as possible, without weakening it for 5 out of 6 matchups and try to defeat (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Defeat) Burn with speed. Burn may have a suboptimal draw as well and better be having their burn spells ready from the get go or it might be too late to start burning away the elves. Emrakul on T3 is possible.
The change that you've made that struck me the most however was you going down to 3 Gaea's Cradle (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gaea%27s+Cradle).
That's the move that indicates the most to me we're operating from different mind sets.
Gaea's Cradle (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gaea%27s+Cradle) is worth its weight in gold and I'd rather add a fifth than go down to three.
First of all, there's Wasteland (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wasteland) that can take them out and second, more important, I want to be able to tap the cradle for 4 or 5 mana and then play a new one and tap it for 4 or 5 mana more.
The cradles, Titania (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Titania) Priests and Archdruids are the engines of the deck, you need 4 of all these.
I also don't agree with removing a number of "1 drop dorks" ;)
Those small elves are what fuel the above mentioned three cards.
I can tap a forest (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Forest) for an elf and actually gain 3 mana with it ( 2 net ) because Cradle, Priest and Archdruid now produce one more mana. Utopia Sprawl (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Utopia+Sprawl) or Birds of paradise (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Birds+of+Paradise) don't give me that bonus.
I'm going to try next if I can run this reliably with 10 forests and 4 Cavern of Souls (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Cavern+of+Souls) ( + 4 Cradles of course )
Thanks for your replies, you keep this place alive (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Alive) ;)
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https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-eldrazi-elves
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"you keep this place alive (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Alive) ;)" tyty 😬
You also lose against blue
I changed to 3 Gaea's cradle (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gaea%27s+Cradle) because in the burn matchup you will doubtless have less creatures in play.
12 1 drops is too much. Maybe it won't seem like it but trust me in reality you'll be stuck drawing a ton of them and wishing for something good. I have experienced that with half the amount of elves
I added utopia sprawl (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Utopia+Sprawl) to help decrease your dependency on the 1/1 dorks.
The other way you could do what I did is Archetype of Endurance (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Archetype+of+Endurance), but against burn I don't know if casting that is realistic, as you'll probably only have a little bit of Ramp.
And it's not dead (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dead) in 5/6 matchups. It's dead (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dead) in 5/32 matchups, remember multicolored. It stops aggro which is a top deck ATM.
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You could use steely resolve (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Steely+Resolve) instead
Props to Snook-Zulu for the suggestion
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You also lose against blue
That seems like a very generic statement.
What exactly is your definition of "blue" ?
I changed to 3 Gaea's cradle (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gaea%27s+Cradle) because in the burn matchup you will doubtless have less creatures in play.
But you'll play far more games against decks that don't run burn - a 5 to 1 ratio.
And it's not dead (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dead) in 5/6 matchups. It's dead (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dead) in 5/32 matchups, remember multicolored.
So, you're saying that in 27 out of 32 matchups there's red in it ? Get real ;)
Seriously, there are 6 colors ( 5 colors + colorless + any kind of multicolour combinations )
Any way you turn this ... there will always be 5 times more combinations without red than with red.
You can play W/G/U , B/U/G/W ... what have you.
Point is : red is 1/6th of the possible combinations, therefore, on average and assuming that all combinations see an equal amount of play, you'll meet Red in 1 of every six match ups on average.
12 1 drops is too much. Maybe it won't seem like it but trust me in reality you'll be stuck drawing a ton of them and wishing for something good.
Drawing "something good", that's what this is about, indeed.
Well, let's say I play a W/U or a G/B opponent.
What do you rather draw : a one mana elf that comes into play as a 5/5 creature ( Archdruid, Warcaller etc ) or an Absolute Law (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Absolute+Law). That's a no brainer is it ?
But tell you what. I'll try it out.
I'll replace the Joraga Treespeakers with Utopia Sprawl (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Utopia+Sprawl)
and replace 3 Fyndhorn Elves (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Fyndhorn+Elves) with Steely Resolve (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Steely+Resolve). ( Props snook-zulu )
Earthquake (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Earthquake) could still be a problem.
I'll see how the deck performs.
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There's really only a couple of functional mono blue strategies and they all screw green ;D
Shroud would benefit against blue black and white as well, its better to reduce your dependency on creature ramp because it's much easier for them to tap it bounce it or kill it than with enchantments
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And in my deck flooding with dorks was more like: 1/1 and 1 more mana next turn or Emrakul
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I was pleasantly surprised by the effectiveness of the changes that were suggested/made.
Utopia Sprawl (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Utopia+Sprawl) worked nicely and invites for the use of Arbor Elf (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Arbor+Elf) instead of a regular 1-mana elf.
Steely Resolve (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Steely+Resolve) slides in nicely at just two mana and takes away considerable pressure. It gives you more time/turns to build up without risking everything.
The 4 Caverns also showed up consistently and never hindered.
You guys deserved an upvote ;)
Revision 42 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-eldrazi-elves?revision=41)
Added/removed cards:
-4 Fyndhorn Elves (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Fyndhorn+Elves)
-4 Joraga Treespeaker (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Joraga+Treespeaker)
-4 Llanowar Elves (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Llanowar+Elves)
+4 Arbor Elf (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Arbor+Elf)
+4 Steely Resolve (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Steely+Resolve)
+4 Utopia Sprawl (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Utopia+Sprawl)
Changed amounts:
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Green remains vulnerable due to the fact that they have few options to disrupt (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Disrupt) their opponent.
Steely Resolve (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Steely+Resolve) eliminates a big part of the "sitting duck" problem.
I added Ezuri, Renegade Leader (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ezuri%2C+Renegade+Leader) as he can help against earthquake (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Earthquake) effects and he can quickly decide a game as well with his +3/+3 trample-for-all ability.
To disrupt (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Disrupt) and buy some time I'm going back to the tried and tested Plow Under (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Plow+Under).
Revision 43 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-eldrazi-elves?revision=42)
Added/removed cards:
+1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ezuri%2C+Renegade+Leader)
+3 Plow Under (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Plow+Under)
Changed amounts:
-1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Emrakul%2C+the+Aeons+Torn)
-2 Green Sun's Zenith (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith)
-1 Reclamation Sage (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Reclamation+Sage)
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ah finally there is the Steely Resolve (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=de&card=Steely+Resolve) :) good choice ;)
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Eladamri, Lord of Leaves (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Eladamri%2C+Lord+of+Leaves) replaces Steely Resolve (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Steely+Resolve) ( how could I have missed this one so long ? )
Song of the Dryads (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Song+of+the+Dryads) is some form of removal and creates the potential for Forestwalk which Eladamri (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Eladamri) provides.
Growing Rites of Itlimoc (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Growing+Rites+of+Itlimoc) provides card draw and another Gaea's Cradle (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gaea%27s+Cradle).
Revision 44 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-eldrazi-elves?revision=43)
Added/removed cards:
-1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ezuri%2C+Renegade+Leader)
-1 Reclamation Sage (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Reclamation+Sage)
-4 Steely Resolve (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Steely+Resolve)
+3 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Eladamri%2C+Lord+of+Leaves)
+1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Growing+Rites+of+Itlimoc)
+2 Song of the Dryads (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Song+of+the+Dryads)
Changed amounts:
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Song of the Dryads (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Song+of+the+Dryads) is a fantastic card in this deck. More wanted.
Thing in the Ice (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Thing+in+the+Ice) threatening to bounce all your Elves ?
Just turn the thing into a simple (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Simple) Forest (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Forest).
That leaves me with a single spot to fill.
I'll try Garruk Wildspeaker (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Garruk+Wildspeaker).
Ability to untap Gaea's Cradle (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gaea%27s+Cradle) and cast overrun (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Overrun) after just surviving one round seems powerful and in line with this deck. I'll see how it goes.
Revision 45 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-eldrazi-elves?revision=44)
Added/removed cards:
-3 Plow Under (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Plow+Under)
+1 Garruk Wildspeaker (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Garruk+Wildspeaker)
Changed amounts:
+2 Song of the Dryads (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Song+of+the+Dryads)
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One of the main attraction points of magic : you can keep tuning and improving your deck even when you thought you were already "there".
Soren was right, I don't need 4 Emrakul.
Actually, I now think I don't even need three or two but just one.
The point is : if you can ramp up alright to 15 mana it's nice to have Emrakul available
but if you can't ramp up that high ( for whatever reason ) that's 4 dead (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dead) cards in your deck.
Therefore, I think you need only 1 while you maximize the chances to get one :
meaning 1 Emrakul and 4 Worldly Tutors to get him.
That still gives you 5 chances to get him but the tutors can be used differently if need be and now you have a maximum of only 1 potential dead (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dead) Emrakul card in your deck.
I also further tuned the T1 mana drops.
I figure 10 could/should be enough : 4 Arbor Elf (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Arbor+Elf), 4 Utopia Sprawl (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Utopia+Sprawl) and 2 Elvish Mystic (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Mystic).
Dropped two Mystics.
This allows me to add Dwynen and Ezuri.
The two Emrakuls that were taken out were replaced by 2 Green Sun's Zenith (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith) upping their total back to 4. The Zeniths are no card loss as they are shuffled back into your deck and give you great odds (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Odds) to get exactly what you want on the table.
Stay tuned ;)
Revision 46 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-eldrazi-elves?revision=45)
Added/removed cards:
+1 Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dwynen%2C+Gilt-Leaf+Daen)
+1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ezuri%2C+Renegade+Leader)
Changed amounts:
-2 Elvish Mystic (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Mystic)
-2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Emrakul%2C+the+Aeons+Torn)
+2 Green Sun's Zenith (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith)
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Nice job with the deck ;D
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Hello, this is my first post here.
I am a legacy elf combo player, so this thread interests me greatly. What are your thoughts on the pros and cons of your build versus the established Glimpse-Combo, Natural order (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Natural+Order) decks using Craterhoof Behemoth (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Craterhoof+Behemoth) as a game ender?
Have you considered adding black to your deck and using the Deathrite Shaman (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Deathrite+Shaman), Fetchlands, Bayou (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Bayou), and Abrupt Decay (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Abrupt+Decay) package?
Generally speaking, Deathrite offers you much more utility in your main deck than Elvish Mystics. It includes mana ramp as well as graveyard hate and an alternate source of damage for the grindy games.
You could limit your forests and Cavern of Souls (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Cavern+of+Souls) and raise the total lands in the deck to 20 to allow for a more regular land draw. The fetch lands also allow you to thin your deck slightly at a very minimal cost of 1 life and every land in the garveyard can be used by Deathrite as future mana (don't forget (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Forget) you can eat your opponents lands too, get rid of those pesky wastelands). Something like 4 Cradle, 2 caverns, 8 Green Fetches, 2 bayou (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Bayou), 4 Forests would work nicely. (This is very similar to my land base, except I have on 1 cavern, 2 forests, 9 fetches, and 2 dryad arbor (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dryad+Arbor)). If you feel like 8 fetches is too many, you can always reduce the number and increase Forests or Caverns to adjust.
The addition of B to the deck would vastly open up your sideboard options for disruption. Thoughtseize (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Thoughtseize), Abrupt Decay (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Abrupt+Decay), Cabal Therapy (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Cabal+Therapy), and more.
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Hi Falkenrath,
If this is the kind of posts you'll make over here , welcome ;)
Hello, this is my first post here.
I am a legacy elf combo player, so this thread interests me greatly. What are your thoughts on the pros and cons of your build versus the established Glimpse-Combo, Natural order (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Natural+Order) decks using Craterhoof Behemoth (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Craterhoof+Behemoth) as a game ender?
I'd say those Natural Order (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Natural+Order) decks are more combo oriented than my build, which I consider more aggro.
The Order builds are definitely fast and if they go off, it's over but they may be easier to stop.
Correct me if I'm wrong please, but if you can somehow stop Craterhoof Behemoth (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Craterhoof+Behemoth) from hitting the table they are in trouble.
I'm thinking counters of course but also Meddling Mage (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Meddling+Mage) or Circu, Dimir Lobotomist (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Circu%2C+Dimir-Lobotomist) or Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ashiok%2C+Nightmare+Weaver), Glimpse the unthinkable (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Glimpse+the+Unthinkable) etc... Fast and powerful but also fragile and with no defense to speak of if the deck does not go off for some reason.
My build was originally built to ramp up asap towards Emrakul but I've scaled that part down over the last few weeks ( with the help of these excellent posters here )
I can still get Emrakul out as fast as T3 with the right hand and uninterrupted but the focus has shifted more towards the Joraga Warcallers lately.
Between them, the Elvish Archdruids and Dwynen they can boost those elves quickly and become a force to be reckoned with.
Get a couple of 5 mana Warcallers out together with an Archdruid and you're giving those little Elves +5/+5.
So, overall I'd consider my build also quite fast but with more potential threats and multiple means to win the game.
The Shroud, provided by Eladamri, Lord of Leaves (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Eladamri%2C+Lord+of+Leaves) is another element that should make my deck more resistant to some types of opposition (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Opposition), I think.
Have you considered adding black to your deck and using the Deathrite Shaman (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Deathrite+Shaman), Fetchlands, Bayou (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Bayou), and Abrupt Decay (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Abrupt+Decay) package?
Short answer : no, I hadn't and this is a great suggestion.
As I mentioned above, the deck was originally designed to ramp up asap to 15 mana for Emrakul and thus mono green and lots of elves to boost Priest of Titania (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Priest+of+Titania) and Elvish Archdruid (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Archdruid) was my original goal.
But as the focus of the deck has shifted, adding black would very likely be an improvement.
You have earned yourself some Karma (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Karma), Sir.
Updated deck forthcoming.
The mana base is a bit of a concern though.
Bayou (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Bayou) is risky ( Wasteland (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wasteland) ) and Bayou (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Bayou) with Utopia Sprawl (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Utopia+Sprawl) on it may be too much of a risk to take.
Otoh Utopia Sprawl (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Utopia+Sprawl) gives me 4 additional potential black mana sources.
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Revision 48 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-eldrazi-elves?revision=47)
Added/removed cards:
-2 Elvish Mystic (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Mystic)
-1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Growing+Rites+of+Itlimoc)
+2 Abrupt Decay (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Abrupt+Decay)
+2 Bayou (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Bayou)
+2 Deathrite Shaman (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Deathrite+Shaman)
+4 Verdant Catacombs (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Verdant+Catacombs)
+1 Wirewood Lodge (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wirewood+Lodge)
Changed amounts:
-1 Cavern of Souls (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Cavern+of+Souls)
-6 Forest (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Forest)
-1 Song of the Dryads (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Song+of+the+Dryads)
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One of the biggest things I am worried about with your build is the reliance on straight draws.
I believe the only reason that legacy elf combo is able to exist in the current meta is because of the sheer draw power and synergy of Glimpse of Nature (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Glimpse+of+Nature), Wirewood Symbiote (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wirewood+Symbiote), and Elvish Visionary (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Visionary). Elvish Visionary (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Visionary) is probably the best elf in the deck. Drawing more cards in legacy is tantamount to winning in most cases.
A few well placed Lightning Bolts, Abrupt Decay (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Abrupt+Decay), or Fatal Push (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Fatal+Push) on your lords will drastically slow you down. Toxic Deluge (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Toxic+Deluge) is also a card that can still wipe your field, leaving you with an abysmally slow recovery. While all of these cards will hurt me just as much, a Glimpse of Nature (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Glimpse+of+Nature) and a few creatures later will see me back in the action.
There is a new enchantment coming out in Ixalan: Shapers' Sanctuary (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Shapers%27+Sanctuary). I have been thinking about adding to my sideboard, it seems like a wonderful addition. Legacy elves has already proven that a single copy of Leovold, Emissary of Trest (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Leovold%2C+Emissary+of+Trest) is extremely potent in many match-ups as a Green Sun's Zenith (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith) target (I highly suggest you at least put him in your sideboard). Having a mini version as a back up could be a possibility.
Further more, I don't think Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dwynen%2C+Gilt-Leaf+Daen) is worth the mana to cast him. You would much rather be playing any of your other elves, or casting a Green Sun's Zenith (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith) for another Arch Druid. As they say, winning is winning. Having more life is nice, but winning with 10 life is the same as winning with 30.
Also, Deathrite Shaman (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Deathrite+Shaman) should absolutely be a 4 count card. It is simply too useful in almost every match-up. The graveyard hate on your opponents is incredibly necessary, it helps protect from unwanted Flashbacks from a Snapcaster Mage (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Snapcaster+Mage) (just exile (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Exile) the spell they target with Snapcaster before the ETB ability can resolve) as well as helping to keep those pesky Tarmogoyfs from getting too big. Lastly, you can pull any number of other pertinent cards such as re-animator targets, wastelands, or combo pieces .
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@Falkenrath
Your post contains some spot on observations.
That's why it took me some time to review my deck and write this response.
The observation that needed heeding the most imo was this :
One of the biggest things I am worried about with your build is the reliance on straight draws.
This deck can empty your hand in a heartbeat and it can indeed be a problem if you can't play Emrakul or Joraga Warcaller (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Joraga+Warcaller) at that point or if you're not able to tutor for them.
Something else I noticed as I scaled down the number of Emrakuls in the deck is that I don't have any quick threats. Something that can reliably come out T2 or T3 without needing to ramp up.
Another observation I made was that I put this deck under a lot of pressure by forcing it to ramp up to 15 mana.
If I don't get to 15 mana, Emrakul becomes a dead (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dead) card.
So, I figured, if I remove the Emrakuls altogether I can remove some of the ramp, replace it by more threats and card draws and still produce plenty of mana for the Warcallers.
Between the Arbor Elves, Gaea's Cradle (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gaea%27s+Cradle), Elvish Archdruid (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Archdruid) and Garruk this deck can still produce lots of mana in a hurry.
The ones I probably don't need anymore with Emrakul out are the Priest of Titania (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Priest+of+Titania).
Going over the Elves database I found what I was looking for in the form of the Sylvan Messenger (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sylvan+Messenger).
- ETB it will yield on average two extra creature cards
- It has built-in Trample which means once a multi-kickered Warcaller joins him he can probably hit where it hurts.
- Having this extra card draw in the form of an Elf means it also empowers the Archdruid & Cradle.
- Comes in at 4 mana but with an Arbor Elf (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Arbor+Elf) / Utopia Sprawl (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Utopia+Sprawl) potential opening I can play this as fast as T2
- You can Green Sun's Zenith (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith) them for 5 mana
- Drawback, you may skip a Green Sun's Zenith (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith), Song of the Dryads (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Song+of+the+Dryads) or Garruk ... but the Fetch lands can let you shuffle.
Looking for additional threats, another potentially powerful card I came across was the hardest hitting 2 mana green Elf Talara's Battalion (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Talara%27s+Battalion). She too comes with Trample which makes for a fantastic card to play early, then boost with the Warcaller. This card is dangerous (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dangerous) enough to attract attention / removal spells and that is something the mana elves may benefit from.
In place of the Priest of Titania (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Priest+of+Titania), I added Elvish Visionary (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Visionary) for more card draw.
I also tried running 4 Deathrite Shaman (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Deathrite+Shaman) but together with the Arbor Elves and Utopia Sprawl (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Utopia+Sprawl), that's 12 cards and that's too much cards invested there imo.
I could alternatively remove the Elf/Sprawl combo but that would severely hamper the mana production and explosiveness.
So ultimately I decided to go with 2 Deathrite Shaman (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Deathrite+Shaman), also because I still think I don't need 4 ( I leave that possibility still open )
With ten 1-mana drops I think I have the right amount here.
So, overall, I've reduced the pressure on the mana producers, added card drawing and more threats.
Revision 49 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=48)
Added/removed cards:
-2 Abrupt Decay (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Abrupt+Decay)
-1 Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dwynen%2C+Gilt-Leaf+Daen)
-1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Emrakul%2C+the+Aeons+Torn)
-1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ezuri%2C+Renegade+Leader)
-4 Priest of Titania (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Priest+of+Titania)
-1 Wirewood Lodge (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wirewood+Lodge)
-4 Worldly Tutor (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Worldly+Tutor)
+3 Elvish Visionary (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Visionary)
+1 Misty Rainforest (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Misty+Rainforest)
+4 Sylvan Messenger (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sylvan+Messenger)
+4 Talara's Battalion (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Talara%27s+Battalion)
+1 Windswept Heath (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Windswept+Heath)
+1 Wooded Foothills (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wooded+Foothills)
Changed amounts:
-1 Bayou (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Bayou)
-1 Gaea's Cradle (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gaea%27s+Cradle)
+1 Garruk Wildspeaker (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Garruk+Wildspeaker)
+1 Song of the Dryads (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Song+of+the+Dryads)
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High time for an upgrade.
Vanquisher's Banner (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Vanquisher%27s+Banner) gives me the massive draw ability I was lacking before and Forestwalk means I don't need Trample to hit home.
Revision 61 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=60)
Added/removed cards:
-1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Garruk%2C+Caller+of+Beasts)
-4 Sylvan Messenger (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sylvan+Messenger)
-4 Talara's Battalion (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Talara%27s+Battalion)
+1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Nykthos%2C+Shrine+to+Nyx)
+4 Vanquisher's Banner (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Vanquisher%27s+Banner)
Changed amounts:
+2 Elvish Champion (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Champion)
-2 Forest (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Forest)
+2 Llanowar Elves (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Llanowar+Elves)
+2 Priest of Titania (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Priest+of+Titania)
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Revision 62 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=61)
Added/removed cards:
+2 (Main) +2 (SB) Reclamation Sage (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Reclamation+Sage)
Changed amounts:
-2 Llanowar Elves (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Llanowar+Elves)
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Hunting Triad (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Hunting+Triad) is perfect for this deck.
Allows me to add multiple Elves or can be used to pump up the Joraga Elf. win, win situation.
Revision 73 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=72)
Added/removed cards:
-3 Llanowar Elves (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Llanowar+Elves)
Changed amounts:
+1 (Main) -1 (SB) Coat of Arms (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Coat+of+Arms)
+1 Elvish Mystic (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Elvish+Mystic)
+1 Fyndhorn Elves (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Fyndhorn+Elves)
-2 Priest of Titania (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Priest+of+Titania)
+2 (Main) -2 (SB) Sylvan Messenger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sylvan+Messenger)
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Revision 74 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=73)
Added/removed cards:
-1 Coat of Arms (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Coat+of+Arms)
+1 Garruk Wildspeaker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Garruk+Wildspeaker)
+2 Green Sun's Zenith (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith)
+1 Scavenging Ooze (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Scavenging+Ooze)
-1 (SB) Vanquisher's Banner (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Vanquisher%27s+Banner)
Changed amounts:
-1 (Main) +1 (SB) Eladamri, Lord of Leaves (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Eladamri%2C+Lord+of+Leaves)
-2 Hunting Triad (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Hunting+Triad)
+2 Priest of Titania (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Priest+of+Titania)
-2 Sylvan Messenger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sylvan+Messenger)
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Coat of Arms (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Coat+of+Arms) outperforms Garruk Wildspeaker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Garruk+Wildspeaker) in this deck.
CoA is even more of a bomb in combination with Hunting Triad (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Hunting+Triad).
Had a T4 today with CoA and Triad for three tokens.
T5 attack with 5 8/8 creatures for 24 unblocked damage.
Revision 75 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=74)
Added/removed cards:
-1 Garruk Wildspeaker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Garruk+Wildspeaker)
+1 Coat of Arms (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Coat+of+Arms)
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Revision 79 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=78)
Added/removed cards:
-1 Coat of Arms (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Coat+of+Arms)
+2 Walking Ballista (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Walking+Ballista)
Changed amounts:
-1 Sylvan Messenger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Sylvan+Messenger)
-
Revision 80 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=79)
Added/removed cards:
+2 Immaculate Magistrate (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Immaculate+Magistrate)
Changed amounts:
-1 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Eladamri%2C+Lord+of+Leaves)
-1 Hunting Triad (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Hunting+Triad)
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Revision 81 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=80)
Added/removed cards:
-1 Misty Rainforest (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Misty+Rainforest)
-1 Verdant Catacombs (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Verdant+Catacombs)
-1 Windswept Heath (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Windswept+Heath)
-1 Wooded Foothills (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Wooded+Foothills)
Changed amounts:
+4 Forest (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Forest)
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Revision 82 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=81)
Added/removed cards:
-2 Walking Ballista (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Walking+Ballista)
Changed amounts:
+1 Forest (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Forest)
+1 Sylvan Messenger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Sylvan+Messenger)
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Revision 84 (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/774387-joraga-elves?revision=83)
Added/removed cards:
+3 Ezuri's Archers (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Ezuri%27s+Archers)
Changed amounts:
-2 Elvish Archdruid (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Elvish+Archdruid)
-1 Elvish Champion (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Elvish+Champion)
-1 Gaea's Cradle (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Gaea%27s+Cradle)
+1 Wasteland (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Wasteland)