Messages

1

Commander Deck Reviews / Re: Question about first commander deck

« le: Mai 09, 2024, 06:25:32 pm »

It really depends on your budget.  Edgar Markov was the face commander in the Commander 2017 preconstructed deck, but because he's only ever had a limited print run with that product (and because Eminence is broken), he alone is over $100, and I doubt you're going to be able to find a sealed copy of his deck (Vampiric Bloodlust), let alone for a reasonable price.

The other thing to consider is what kind of deck you'd like to play and your preferred play style.  Edgar is pretty straightforward.  It's vampire tribal, and I don't think there's too much variance in how people typically build decks around him: cast vampires, make vampires, make vampires big, swing.  The +1/+1 counters can get kind of annoying to keep track of because of the number of tokens you're making, but that's a minor issue.  If you sit down at a table with Edgar as your commander, understand that you probably will be correctly assessed as a significant threat before you even start playing.  If it wasn't for his Eminence ability, even if he cost 1 or 2 less to cast, he wouldn't be nearly as oppressive.

Extus/Blood Avatar probably does give you a bit more flexibility with deck design, but it's also more difficult to build well - although there are several three or four card combos that go infinite and win on the spot (though I typically don't like playing infinite combos).  Ultimately, it is an aristocrats style deck: sack a bunch of your creatures to drain your opponents of life, recur them or make more, rinse, and repeat.  The Magecraft ability on Extus turns out to be more of a useful incidental thing than it is something you can reliably build the whole deck around (although it would be interesting to see it done that way).  In reality, you're probably actually not going to be casting Extus all that much but rather making a bunch of tokens to sacrifice to Blood Avatar and keep recasting that.  It's not as threatening as Edgar would be and will likely be cheaper to build.  However, keep in mind that, because Blood Avatar hurts all of your opponents equally, it can incentivize the table to collectively deal with you.

Personally, if it were me, I'd go with Extus, if only for the cost.  I can't fathom spending over $100 on a single card, especially for my first ever deck.  The Eminence mechanic is quite imbalanced and not exactly fun either in my opinion.  I wouldn't worry too much about the deck not being "strong" just off Arena testing.  While it can be a bit more clunky than Edgar would, it can certainly hold its own in most pods.  That being said, if the people with whom you play are OK with proxies (most people are in most cases, especially when playtesting a new deck), proxy both and play both.  See which one you like more.

2

General Magic / Re: Questions regarding suspension and more generally "casting" and triggers

« le: Décembre 15, 2023, 08:31:50 pm »

But Im a bit confused about the suspension counters.

For me you would typically remove the 2 counters at the same time, causing both spells to go on the stack at the same time. There you would choose which one goes first but before any of them resolved the other would be right behind, ready to be resolved aswell.
...
Édit : just realized that in your example the counter is going on the stack, its just that in my head removing suspension counters had to be some kind of special action or state-based-action but it appears its just a normal thing ? I feel smarter and yet more lost than before lol

Removing the time counters is a triggered ability.  Triggered abilities usually start with words like when, whenever, at, etc., always have some sort of operative phrase followed by a comma giving some criterion that must be met before the ability triggers (e.g. "at the beginning of your upkeep," "whenever you draw a card," etc.), and then what the ability actually does.  Static abilities are continuous/permanent effects.  Flying or "Green creatures you control get +1/+1" are static abilities.  State-based actions are things that happen whenever certain conditions are met as a result of the rules of the game.  For example, a player losing the game because his life total reaches zero is a state-based action.

Since you have two spells that are suspended, there are two separate "At the beginning of your upkeep" triggers.  They both trigger at the same time.  Because you control both triggers, you decide which order they go on the stack, and because they are separate triggers, they resolve at different times.  As they resolve, cast triggers get put on the stack.  In reality then, the time counters are not removed at the same time even though the trigger to remove them does.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

3

General Magic / Re: Questions regarding suspension and more generally "casting" and triggers

« le: Décembre 14, 2023, 12:30:30 am »

What confused me for Complete the Circuit was the word "cast" that made me believe that Complete the circuit had to be resolved BEFORE I play the second spell as if it was on the stack already it wouldn't work.

You're right.  It does have to resolve before you cast the second spell; if you were to cast CtC and then the second spell in response to it or something else before CtC resolved, you wouldn't get the copies of the second spell.  CtC being an Instant is a little counter-intuitive for this reason; if you cast it on someone else's turn, you have to wait for the stack to resolve, priority to pass back to the player whose turn it is, and then for them to take another game action to which you can respond to in order to get the benefit of CtC.

The reason it works with the Suspend mechanic off Gandalf's trigger to copy the second spell is because, even though both go to zero time counters on the same upkeep step, you're not actually casting the second spell until CtC has resolved because the cast triggers themselves do not go on the stack at the same time as I outlined in the previous post (I edited step 8 for clarification; previously, it read "you previously cast CtC this turn," but it should have read "you previously resolved CtC this turn).

Fully understanding triggers and stack manipulation/resolution is probably one of the most complicated parts of Magic.  So far, it seems like your intuition about it has been correct, it's just understanding the nuances of the stack order that you weren't 100% sure about.  There are a lot of weird combos that work specifically because of things like that.

4

General Magic / Re: Questions regarding suspension and more generally "casting" and triggers

« le: Décembre 13, 2023, 12:15:33 am »

In the case of Complete the Circuit, both it and the other spell (let's say Shock for simplicity's sake) you cast afterwards will get exiled at the same time and have the time counters put on them (obviously, the copies will not, since they are not actually cast).  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe technically this would resolve in the following way.

• On your upkeep, you have two triggers: remove a time counter from Complete the Circuit and remove a time counter from Shock.  Both go on the stack at the same time, so you choose the order in which they go on the stack (and consequently the order in which they resolve).
• You choose to put suspended Shock's upkeep trigger on the stack first so that it resolves last, then the trigger for CtC.
• Time counter is removed from CtC, so it is cast at that time - with the Shock trigger still on the stack.
• CtC cast goes on top of the stack and will resolve first.
• CtC resolves.
• Stack moves to removing the time counter from Shock.
• Counter is removed, Shock cast trigger put on stack.
• Shock resolves, then is copied twice because you previously resolved CtC this turn.

For Insidious Will, or any other spell that refers to "target spell" for that matter, you are correct: if there is no other spell on the stack that is a legal target, you cannot cast it.  The time counter would be removed, but the spell would stay exiled because it was not cast (the suspend rules specifically say "if able" in reference to casting the spell without paying its cost when the last counter is removed).

For Snap, you are also correct.  In order to get the benefit of untapping the lands as the spell resolves, you would have to float mana (i.e. tap the lands) in response to the spell being cast.  However, because this is occurring during your upkeep and you lose all unspent mana in your pool as you move through turn phases, unless you have something else on which to spend that mana or an effect like Horizon Stone, you really don't gain anything by doing so.

As far as other "tricky mechanisms" are concerned, I believe you already asked about the Splice mechanic in a different thread.  In general, stack manipulation is the tricky mechanic.  I typically shy away from spell-slinging decks like this just because they do get confusing to resolve properly sometimes.

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General Magic / Re: Rule question regarding Gandalf of secret fire

« le: Décembre 08, 2023, 05:38:12 pm »

Splice is a mechanic that simply adds one card's effect onto another: "As you cast an [Arcane/instant or sorcery] spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card’s effects to that spell."  The card you are splicing doesn't actually get cast, so the Gandalf trigger only happens for the spell that you cast.  For example, if you cast Consuming Vortex and splice on Glacial Ray, only Vortex itself will get cast and then exiled with the three time counters.  Ray stays in your hand.

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Commander Discussion / Re: Non-stax Lavinia?

« le: Décembre 08, 2023, 09:24:24 am »

That would be one way to do it.  Pure stax is gross, so my intention was to just disrupt what I see as being some of the more "degenerate" mechanics/archetypes, namely free spells, infinite combos/storm, and severly cheating costs by playing creatures for free or reanimating them at a steep discount.  I mean, yes, Lavinia is a stax piece, but frankly I don't think saying that you can't cast spells for free is all that unreasonable.  I understand this wouldn't be a good deck.  I just want it to enforce "fairness" in a viable way and still be able to somehow win.

In all honesty, I'm not too fond of cards that literally just say, "You win the game" either.  Yes, there are conditions that must be met in order for them to actually win you the game, so you do have to work for them and they are fair, but it still feels dull and anti-climactic when that's how the game ends.  The handful of games I've played that were won with something like an Approach were among the most boring, and it's even worse when you see it coming but aren't able to do anything about it.  I do like the idea of things like Scholarship Sponsor or Oath of Lieges that bring everyone up to par with the person who's the most ahead at the very least (as opposed to Balance-type effects that bring everyone down to the lowest).

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Commander Discussion / Non-stax Lavinia?

« le: Décembre 08, 2023, 02:20:49 am »

TL;DR: I'm trying to find a creative/off-beat way of winning with Lavinia, Azorius Renegade without going full stax and using the standard combo with her and Omen Machine and/or Knowledge Pool.

I hate stax.  I don't like playing it, and I despise playing against it.  When I sit down to play Magic, I want to play the game.  Stax says, "Well, you can't, and if you do, it costs more, comes in tapped, might cause you to lose resources, and oh, by the way, you can only cast one thing and draw one card per turn, if you can play at all."

Similarly, I hate playing in an environment where I feel like I have to play stax to stay competitive or have a chance at winning.  The group of friends I have that I spend the most time with is the same group that got me into magic in the first place, but they tend to play faster/higher-powered than I like.  For example, one guy has a Krark/Sakashima deck and had a Muldrotha reanimator deck; one had a Meren deck that turned into Kokusho, a Maelstrom Wanderer deck that started as cEDH and he tuned down some, and brewed a Pantlaza flicker deck as soon as the card was spoiled (before it dominated in tournaments a couple weekends ago); and the last guy has an Eldrazi tribal deck, a cascade-oriented Jodah, Archmage Eternal deck, and insists on playing Mana Crypt and Moxes in every deck he builds.  The other friend in the group who quit playing a couple years ago had OG Kaalia, Azusa, and Azami as three of his commanders.

All that being said, when Lavinia, Azorius Renegade got printed, I was so excited.  She was the commander I'd wanted that could help shut down some of the more degenerate stuff that I didn't like playing against - free spells, fast mana, cheated costs on giant spells or creatures, etc.  I'd then run things like Containment Priest to prevent creatures from being cheated into play for free, Grafdigger's Cage and Soulless Jailer to stop animation of some disgusting or huge creature just Entombed, and Void Mirror (which all but completely singlehandedly shuts down a colorless Eldrazi deck).

The problem is that, unless you play her full stax, there's really no clear or reliable win condition.  She requires so much protection that I could go voltron, but that requires too much additional support for something that's only a 2/2.  I thought about Human or Soldier tribal synergies, but then I'd just be better off playing Harbin, Vanguard Aviator.  I threw together a rough draft of what I'd like the deck to look like (didn't do anything special with the lands), but I can't figure out a reliable way to win with it beside the Knowledge Pool or Omen Machine combo with Lavinia that hard locks people out of the game - or a way to do it fast enough that I don't have to play hardcore stax - or what of my "play fair" cards I have to sacrifice to get a win condition in the deck.  The idea is just to force people to "play fair," not to keep them from playing at all.

Any ideas?  Apologies for maybeboard size; that's just a side effect of how I build decks.

https://deckstats.net/decks/115144/3295960-no-funny-business

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Commander Discussion / Re: Will Stroke of Midnight become a new White Staple

« le: Octobre 13, 2023, 02:12:13 am »

It depends on the format.  The limitation - albeit a small one - of Stroke of Midnight is that it can't hit lands, whereas Generous Gift can.  I basically play only commander exclusively, so the additional utility of being able to hit a problematic land like a Cabal Coffers, Gaea's Cradle, Maze of Ith, or even a Reliquary Tower is worth the slightly larger body the opponent gets; in most situations, the difference between a vanilla 1/1 and a vanilla 3/3 is negligible.  Honestly, I'd probably run both, and I was excited about seeing Excise the Imperfect too.

I don't know what the constructed/limited landscape is like for lands (no pun intended), but I expect in those formats Stroke would be marginally better than Gift.

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General Magic / Re: How to make a better magic player

« le: Juillet 07, 2023, 12:14:00 am »

I don't know who your playgroup is, but it sounds like it might be worth finding another playgroup (I'm not saying ditch your current one, just find another one).  I think one of the best ways to learn is to have a playgroup that is willing to help you learn as well.  It's great that you're trying to help her, but it's better if everyone at the table understands that she's still learning and will give pointers as well. When my friends first got me into the game a few years ago, a couple of them generally played higher-powered decks and it was a bit of trial by fire for me, but they were at least willing to explain what was going on, explain play lines or combos, help with threat assessment or optimal plays, etc. even if I didn't understand it at the time.  The people with whom you play determine how good your experience is almost as much as - if not more than - the decks do.  I'd rather lose and have fun than win and not have fun because I play the same infinite combo every time.

On that note, the other thing I would say is power down decks and play more casually.  I don't think I've looked at any of your other decks, and Rat tribal is pretty straightforward, but it is also quite threatening; you bring a rat deck to the table and immediately you put a target on your back.  It's fine to want to play something like that, but that must come with the understanding that you are a threat before the game even starts.  The less competitive the game, the easier it is to learn in my opinion.

If it's certain mechanics she's struggling to grasp, maybe start by building something simpler to understand basic mechanics and build up from there.  Maybe go through an archetypal deck of each color (green ramps a lot to play big creatures, red likes haste and burn spells, blue draws cards and has counterspells, black plays with the graveyard, white does... well, nobody really knows ).  When my friend tried to get his wife into the game so she wouldn't feel left out when the guys got together, he built her a Dinosaur tribal Gishath deck.  It was relatively straightforward "play big dinosaurs and punch face" deck with just a couple special interactions or mechanics (in this case, Enrage triggers and how and when to use them) for her to focus on learning... she hardly ever plays it because she literally doesn't have the attention span for a commander game, but she at least understood how to play it and enjoyed it.  I think if your wife can "master" a specific deck or two (and, to echo what someone else said, that features a play style she likes), she'll get more enjoyment out of the game; once you've learned the intricacies of your deck, you can start to focus on how everyone else's decks work and how they interact with yours.

If it's strictly rules - for example phase order, passing priority, what actions you can and can't respond to, how the stack resolves, etc. - that really just comes with repetition.  The same goes for general game knowledge.  Threat assessment is difficult when you've never even heard of half the cards in your opponents' decks and don't know certain combos (I've played for four or five years now and there still is not a single game where I don't have to ask, "What does that card do?").  It is very much a learn by doing game.  Many interactions don't seem to be intuitive at all, and I still get stumped trying to resolve certain things.  Magic can be super confusing and is incredibly complex.  In fact, it's actually the most complicated game, so much so that you can build a computer with it (in the literal sense of the word - you can create a Turing machine with it).  Playing can definitely be discouraging when you're constantly bombarded with new interactions and weirdly specific rules.

I'll be honest, Magic seems much harder to learn now that it was even three or four years ago because of all the new mechanics they keep introducing, not to mention that now ever single card has a giant block of text on it and vanilla creatures are basically nonexistent.  I don't envy new players nowadays with the deluge of new cards and hundreds of potential new commanders every year.  It is something you have to want to learn, not something you can just casually pick up.

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Commander Deck Reviews / Re: Giada Lifegain tribal - Need a few cuts

« le: Juillet 06, 2023, 08:05:50 pm »

I have an Orzhov Angel tribal deck with Liesa, Shroud of Dusk as the commander (though Liesa, Forgotten Archangel works as well).  The deck is 75% white, so there's a lot of overlap here with mine.  Just going section by section:

Card Advantage - Definitely thin, but that's white.  You should run Smuggler's Share.  People drawing two or more cards per turn in commander is fairly common, and it also gives you a chance for limited ramp.  The problem with it is that it is not always reliable or consistent draw and often feels like a do-nothing 3-drop, but it's something that people are probably not going to waste removal on so you will eventually get value from it.  You could consider something like Cosmos Elixir as well since you're leaning into the lifegain.  Firemane Commando is also worth a look (it is an Angel), as well as Tenuous Truce.  Icon of Ancestry isn't exactly draw, but it gives you a bit of card selection.  I would cut Angelic Sleuth.  Not only does it rely on your stuff leaving the battlefield - and without many blink effects, that means dying (which you don't want to happen) - but also you still have to pay the additional 2 mana and sac the clue to draw each card.  I like that you included both War Room and Bonders' Enclave in your lands.

Bombs - Akroma's Memorial doesn't seem the most efficient to me (though it is flavorful).  All those keywords are nice, but a bit redundant; you already have flying on everything and consequently probably don't really need Trample, are already running other things that give Vigilance, and are already bigger than most things such that you don't need First Strike (it might be useful if you're facing Demons or Dragons, but at that point you already have the problem of playing against Demons or Dragons).  The haste and pro-black/red is nice, yes, but I don't think it's worth the loss of tempo for playing a 7-mana artifact.  Likewise with True Conviction.  I know it's a finisher, I'm just not fond of the card because of the cost.  I'd almost rather have a Coat of Arms or Door of Destinies.  If you feel you need more combat support, consider things lie Angelic Skirmisher, Brave the Sands, or Sigarda's Vanguard.

Life Shenanigans - Shattered Angel is definitely not a good card, but I shoehorned it into mine anyway.  You should also be running Seraph Sanctuary in your lands.  Speaker of the Heavens?  Angelic Accord or Resplendent Angel?  If you're running Test of Endurance, might as well play Felidar Sovereign too.  Otherwise, you don't actually have too many cards that have or grant lifelink, so maybe cut Test?

Protection - Seems fine, though I would like to see Swiftfoot Boots too.  Mandate of Peace is an interesting tech, but probably one of the weaker cards in this section.  Same with Silence (opponents can still respond to the Silence being cast).  Rebuff the Wicked is a card I like but can never seem to find a spot for in my decks.  Consider Kindred Boon.

Ramp - Archangel of Tithes is not ramp.  It's a fine angel, but it is not ramp.  I'd consider cutting Quicksilver Amulet.  I run Belbe's Portal in my deck, and most of the time I just never play it because the one-turn tempo loss of paying 8 for an Angel that probably costs less so that I can maybe play one per turn for only 3 in the future never seems to be the best play.  Sword of the Animist would be fine.  Consider Archaeomancer's Map and Keeper of the Accord.  Nyx Lotus is also great.  I keep mentioning tempo loss, but 4 mana to tap for far more than that a turn later is a huge swing, and people are going to be reluctant to use removal on a mana rock most times.  I run Gilded Lotus in my deck and tried Thran Dynamo, but cut the latter and might cut the former too.  Cryptic Gateway is fine if you're going wide, otherwise it can end up leaving you more open than you would like.  Good tech though that not many people seem to know about (at least not before the reprint).  Monologue Tax isn't great, but there if you're desperate.

Recursion - All good.  Maybe cut Twilight Shepherd.  It's a little slow.  I toyed with it in mine and it just felt clunky.  Not sure about Cauldron of Souls.  Dawnbreak Reclaimer is an interesting card but is also a little clunky.

Removal - You're in mono-white, so Mass Calcify would be worth a look.  I tend to shy away from boardwipes like Cleansing Nova in Angels just because they're so expensive to get back out onto the field.  Excise the Imperfect is another good spot removal card.  There are also Angels that do removal, though often it is temporary.  E.g. Angel of Sanctions, Angel of Serenity, Admonition Angel, Angel of the Ruins.  Aura of Silence isn't bad but serves as more of a stax card (see below).

Staxish - This is the section I would focus on trimming down.  If you want to play stax, play stax (like taxes Liesa).  You're playing Angel tribal, so you should be trying to beat face.  Angel of Jubilation, Angelic Arbiter, and Linvala, Keeper of Silence are fine.  Smothering Tithe is taxes, but I always include it with ramp because almost nobody ever pays for it.  Even Magus of the Moat would be OK because it fits your deck.  Personally, I would cut everything else.

Utility - Like with Sleuth, I'm not sure about The Ozolith; it needs your creatures to leave the battlefield to do anything.  I guess the threat there is that you make a giant beater if anyone ever wipes your board, and 1 mana is an amazing investment for what it does, but I'm not sold on it.  Angel of Condemnation is fine because it's a sort of weird modal recursion/removal card, but I found it too clunky in my deck.  You're a mono-colored deck so you would want to run Caged Sun (or Gauntlet of Power), but I found it to be far too slow.  By the time I have enough mana to cast it and benefit from it, I was either already too far behind or didn't need it.

Untagged - Serra the Benevolent can be considered utility.  Serra Ascendant is not an angel but is an amazing card especially on turn 1 in commander, so that's fine.  Youthful Valkyrie is good.  Helm of the Host does not seem necessary nor like it fits with the deck.  Sure, two (or more) Giadas would be nice, but you're paying 9 mana for that.  Just cast another beefy angel instead.

Lands - I'd consider going up to 35.  I'd cut Maze of Ith.  Can't tap for mana and doesn't really do much to help your deck.  Hall of Heliod's generosity is also something I'd consider cutting since you don't run too many enchantments (but I see you, sneaky Test of Endurance at instant speed).  Similar logic for Serra's Sanctum (though if you have the card, I understand wanting to run it just to flex and because it has a high ceiling).  Homeward Path... I guess if your playgroup meta runs a lot of steal effects?  Opal Palace doesn't seem necessary.  Path of Ancestry would be better for a tribal deck.  Also not sure if Rogue's Passage is necessary considering you run exclusively flying creatures.  Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire is not one of the better Channel lands, but you're running enough Legendary creatures and it taps for white by itself that there's not really a reason to not include it.

Lastly, where are Battle Angels of Tyr?  If you're leaning into lifegain, Ajani, Strength of the Pride is a solid value (4 mana to exile all opponents' creatures and artifacts, or worst case +1 to gain life).  There are other interesting techs that I don't run but thought I would list: Angel of Finality, Angel of the Dire Hour, Blinding Angel, Resolute Archangel, Subjugator Angel, and Sunblast Angel.

EDIT: I'm an idiot.  I forgot Giada gave +1/+1 counters and not static +1/+1, so suddenly Ozolith, Cauldron, and Sleuth seem much better.  I still don't think I would include any of them.

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Commander Discussion / Re: Tier list: Lands

« le: Juin 01, 2023, 07:28:52 pm »

We all know basic Forests are A+ tier.  Wizards pls ban.

Why are the Triomes in tier D?  Rather than tier E?  They always enter tapped.

The Triomes I went back-and-forth on for a while. The only credit to their name is that they are the only lands that are three-mana and fetchable (besides Murmuring Bosk). So when you have a fetchland and you need the mana immediately, you grab a shock land or something. If you can wait on the mana, you fetch a triome on the end step before your turn.

The key is that they have basic types.  Are they objectively good?  Not really, but Domain sure loves them, especially in five-color decks.  Slimefoot's Survey for two triomes and you suddenly have full Domain... problem is there are very few domain cards that are any good outside of Collective Restraint.

Since we're talking about utility lands, wow would you classify them in this tier system?  Is this intended only for color-producing lands and there is a separate list for utility lands?  Most of them only tap for colorless, but that's almost never why you play them.  I run Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter (would be Wasteland and Strip Mine if I was willing to spend the money) in almost every deck I can afford to because it's invaluable to be able to blow up a well-used Reliquary Tower or a Gaea's Cradle/Itlimoc or Cabal Coffers.  Arcane Lighthouse is one I almost always run too provided I have a respectable amount of targeted removal/interaction.

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Commander Discussion / Re: I want to scream

« le: Mai 30, 2023, 06:23:20 pm »

Unfortunately, it's not just that it copies a permanent spell and not a permanent that's the problem.  Myojin only gets the indestructible counter on it if you cast it from your hand, and the command zone is not your hand.  The only way I can think of in mono blue to get an indestructible counter on it without casting from hand would be either Tyrite Sanctum or Tekuthal, Inquiry Dominus (activated ability) + Leech Bonder or Nesting Grounds.  Otherwise, you'd need either a Campfire or Command Beacon to put it from the Command Zone into your hand, or to spend the eight mana to cast it, more to bounce it back to your hand somehow, then pay eight again to recast it.

There are a few times where I've done something similar and realized that a card didn't do what I thought it did (because I didn't read it properly) or some interaction I thought was cool didn't actually work the way I thought it would.  The only recent example I can really think of is Liesa, Shroud of Dusk.  She's the commander for my Orzhov Angel tribal deck.  I thought the paying life instead of commander tax was a may, but it isn't.  You have to pay the life each time.  Turns out that you don't need a Drannith Magistrate to prevent her from being cast from the command zone when you yourself played an Angel of Jubilation.  Needless to say, I took that card out of the deck in a hurry.

Has mtg ever made you want to beat your head against the wall and cry?

You mean that isn't the default response when playing Magic?

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Commander Discussion / Re: Hullbreacher Alternatives

« le: Mai 16, 2023, 06:46:14 pm »

• I think Hullbreaker would be fine.  If Opposition Agent is legal, Hullbreaker seems pretty tame.  Making Treasures isn't exactly what black is most known for (at least not since Ixilan), but I like the idea.
• Hullfixer seems fine.  It's kind of like an Alms Collector, although it would trigger far more frequently.
• I guess Dockside Hullbreacher is OK?  Again, if Dockside Extortionist is still legal, I don't see why this wouldn't be, especially because you can't flash it in.
• Collossal Hullbreacher... best art ever lol.  Not exactly something green would do, but I think doubling the mana cost goes a long way to fixing the problem.

If I recall correctly, I think the main argument in favor of the Hullbreacher ban was that it negated the draw, because there was also talk of banning Notion Thief, along with Narset, Parter of Veils.  I guess Hullbreacher was particularly egregious because it provided ramp, but if the argument was negating the draw or slowing the game down, then why is Notion Thief still legal?  Leovold, Emissary of Trest is banned, but Narset, Parter of Veils isn't?  How does that make sense?  At least Spirit of the Labyrinth causes you to only draw one card as well.  How are cards like Shared Fate or Zur's Weirding any better?

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General Magic / Re: The Walking Dead cards to get in-mtg-universe reprints in Wilds of Eldraine

« le: Mai 16, 2023, 06:18:52 pm »

I'm glad to see they're finally doing this, but what I find irritating about the Universe Within reprints is that the cards are only in the slot of List cards as opposed to the main set.  At that point, they might as well just be reprinted as a separate Secret Lair, but they won't because Wizards knows that slotting them into the main set will push more product.  There's already only a 1 in 4 chance of getting a List card in a set booster.  Divide that by the number of List cards there are (I still don't understand how these are curated or whether they change for each set) and it's still going to be a pretty rare occurrence to crack one of those.

Frankly, I'm in the camp that doesn't care for IP crossovers.  Don't get me wrong, I love some of the cards themselves, but I don't like the fact that Wizards decided to go outside the universe to make them.  When they were just Secret Lairs, I didn't care so much because it was only a few cards at a time in a special limited product so I didn't see them all that often.  The 40K Commander decks started to push it, but were at least a completely separate opt-in product.  When they started throwing Transformers cards into set boosters of Brothers' War, I think they went too far - and don't even get me started on the entire set for Lord of the Rings.  I won't complain about people playing the cards if they're format legal, but I won't be spending money on them or running them myself (even though my Karona deck would love a Lucille).  I still probably won't buy any "in universe" reprints, because now it's just Wizards double dipping on the exact same product, save the art.  It's almost the Double Feature treatment all over again, except on a much smaller scale with cards that will be far more expensive.

15

Commander Discussion / Re: Is Ramp Too Good?

« le: Mai 03, 2023, 10:00:21 pm »

I've been lurking this thread since it was first posted and reading every incredibly long reply. Yet still, have have no idea what this discussion is about. I know that it concerns mana ramp, but that's the extent of it.

What's the goal of this discussion? In one or two sentences please.

I have no idea. I think it's just an argument against fast mana, but with all ramp being too fast. I find it a difficult hypothetical to parse, and I feel like the goalposts keep moving.

Sorry, the more precise I try to get with my language, the more long-winded I get.  Also trying to address multiple people in a single post at a time doesn't help.  In so few words, that's essentially what I was trying to get at earlier.  Every time there is an answer provided, it turns out we answered the wrong question, or are challenged on some minutiae in the answer we give.  I'm not trying to be adversarial, and I think the discussion has remained largely civil, but it seems like we're talking in circles here.

I think you could interpret that as what it actually was, not "the format is fast so ramp is not needed" but "the format is fast because fast ramp exists".

As I said, that might be what you intended to convey, but it came across as the latter, not the former.  In the first quote I cited, all you said was that the format was fast already.  You did not mention ramp at all outside of people "deliberately not using the best ramp" to try to slow the game down.  In the second quote, your exact words were that you didn't agree with the premise that the format was slow and needed ramp is to speed it up because with it, games are "very fast" - the implication being that games are already fast and ramp just makes them faster yet.  But again, we're splitting hairs.  Mana go fast is the gist of it.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "needed"; I don't think we need all the ramp that does exist to exist in order for us to have a good format, but that's different to whether you need to play it as an individual player to keep up with all the other people who are playing it.

Are you referring to where I said certain decks didn't need ramp to get ahead early?  Pick any 2-drop commander.  When Rona, Herald of Invasion is out, you can loot to ensure your land drops and hit your combos such that it's not necessary to ramp.  Besides, when you can dump a Sheoldred, Whispering One into the graveyard, reanimate it, then copy it with a Spark Double by turn four and just choke everyone else out of the game, sure, having a turn one Mox might let you do it faster, but it's not absolutely necessary (which I believe is the exact argument you made anyway in the aforementioned second quote - and I agree).  Fast mana increases the chances of the deck spiking sooner, but it doesn't per se provide any additional consistency to the deck.  I'd rather reliably be able to win on turn four than only 20% of the time be able to win on turn three - which is partially why I don't play competitive, because that's almost the exact wrong attitude to take in that format.

To the point about feeling the need to keep up with everyone else, yes, you do need to run it when you're playing more competitive decks, and I see you do that in a not insignificant portion of your decks.  That doesn't necessarily mean it's problematic.  To Valmias's point, competitive meta will always find a way to play as fast as possible regardless of the restrictions imposed upon it because that is the very nature of the format.  If you don't like playing that way, then you either need to have a discussion with your playgroup about the power level of decks that get brought to the table, or (if they don't want to change) find a different playgroup that does not play competitively.  That's not to be crass and say, "Suck it up or leave," but that is the reality of the situation.  I experienced more or less the same thing with the group of friends that initially got me into the game, but I won't expand upon the particulars since they're not entirely relevant.

But in answer to the original question: Is ramp too good? No. What would EDH look like with only weak mana rocks? Currently competitive decks would be slower, and many weaker decks would become fully nonviable... Competitive players would not take the moment to appreciate a slower pace of game, but would push the meta further toward lower-mana strategies, and any commander over 3 cmc would be too slow to seriously consider. The game would contract to a smaller pool of playable cards...

That's effectively what I was saying in the hypothetical situation where ramp were to just disappear altogether.  You'd skew to one extreme or another: faster, cheap-to-cost commanders in competitive or slower, grindy battle cruiser games in more casual settings.  There wouldn't be much in between.