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Commander Discussion / Re: Taking Sol Ring out of my commander decks - a reasoning.
« en: Abril 07, 2024, 07:06:03 pm »
Amjisan,
The poor shuffling and deviation go hand in hand but yes deviation also happens another way I have previously mentioned. Granted it wouldn't change the 25% outcome to be noticeable it just does. To get the 25% out come all 4 players have to play X amount of lands between them. Remember there is a chance to see the turn 1 sol ring and you need lands for this to happen. I don't know about you but I've known players who play with the incorrect amount of lands and mostly not enough.
The shuffling aspect is yes we can think about it especially in cards. Shuffling randomizes any deck and creates variance. So at the bottom we have a 52 card deck of playing cards that "Riffle seven times and you’ll have a sufficiently random ordering of cards, an ordering that has likely never existed before. In other words, it’s unlikely you’ll ever shuffle two decks the same.". But magic players actually don't riffle shuffle because of course we don't like destroying our cards especially if they aren't sleeved. So this is normally done with some type of overhand shuffle. Now lets bring this 1st into the 60 card format and sticking with the 7 times to shuffle to make it random. To off set some of this randomness we like to put 4 of a card into the deck. We now go up to 100 cards and the 7 times goes up higher. Where that number is I admittingly don't know. I do know that shuffling does play an important part of randomization. I do know magic players like to have a much control over such randomization because of the variance it comes with. With the mulligan rule changes that have happened proved that theory.
Yeah I am understating sol ring while everyone else is over stating it, It is so easy to constantly use an echo chamber stating that a turn 1 sol ring iis indeed impactful. Yes it can be impactful ss it consistently impactful? No because most everyone can remember a game where it was but not a single one of use will remember the games where it wasn't. So much easier to constantly point at the impactfulness then to look at it as a whole. So just echo what everyone else keeps echoing of sol ring impact. This also comes from my own personal experience as well. I normally play EDH 3 days a week but not always. I play at my local LGS on Thursday from 6-10, my Friday night play group from 5:30-10:30 and again on Saturday from 1-6. I've been doing this well over 2 years now and avg from 9 games to 12 or more depending on what decks we are running. Are there games in all those I've played that sol ring was impactful? Yes because 1 in particular I did myself which was a turn 1 sol ring into smothering tithe, and then into anointed procession. That was only 1 time out of who knows how many games I have played. I can recall more games though were there was a turn 1 sol ring has been played and turned into almost nothing. I've seen way to many more impactful things then a turn 1 sol ring.
Now I also know people over stat it because of those lurking in the shadows and a belligerent statement about my intelligence.I'll expect non the less on this part.
I am so confused. Do you not understand how much more 15 mana is over 10 mana? The discrepancy grows the further the game progresses! How is that not super lopsided? Let me take a wild guess.. 25.. nope that isn't it... 67.. nope that isn't correct either.... 2 nope that isn't correct either.. Screw it and I will guess 5 for final answer. But then again you didn't answer my question which is ok. It'll be a yes or no because aren't you ahead in mana in either scenario? Now as the game progresses does it not occur to you that a player or the other players are also ramping? Or is ramping mad progressively only for sol-ring and not the other multitudes of cards that supplant ramp?
Now on that you guys can respond, the lurkers can lurk(got to love the negative drops from them) After this post I am done and moving on away from the boogy man. So go ahead and fire away
The poor shuffling and deviation go hand in hand but yes deviation also happens another way I have previously mentioned. Granted it wouldn't change the 25% outcome to be noticeable it just does. To get the 25% out come all 4 players have to play X amount of lands between them. Remember there is a chance to see the turn 1 sol ring and you need lands for this to happen. I don't know about you but I've known players who play with the incorrect amount of lands and mostly not enough.
The shuffling aspect is yes we can think about it especially in cards. Shuffling randomizes any deck and creates variance. So at the bottom we have a 52 card deck of playing cards that "Riffle seven times and you’ll have a sufficiently random ordering of cards, an ordering that has likely never existed before. In other words, it’s unlikely you’ll ever shuffle two decks the same.". But magic players actually don't riffle shuffle because of course we don't like destroying our cards especially if they aren't sleeved. So this is normally done with some type of overhand shuffle. Now lets bring this 1st into the 60 card format and sticking with the 7 times to shuffle to make it random. To off set some of this randomness we like to put 4 of a card into the deck. We now go up to 100 cards and the 7 times goes up higher. Where that number is I admittingly don't know. I do know that shuffling does play an important part of randomization. I do know magic players like to have a much control over such randomization because of the variance it comes with. With the mulligan rule changes that have happened proved that theory.
Yeah I am understating sol ring while everyone else is over stating it, It is so easy to constantly use an echo chamber stating that a turn 1 sol ring iis indeed impactful. Yes it can be impactful ss it consistently impactful? No because most everyone can remember a game where it was but not a single one of use will remember the games where it wasn't. So much easier to constantly point at the impactfulness then to look at it as a whole. So just echo what everyone else keeps echoing of sol ring impact. This also comes from my own personal experience as well. I normally play EDH 3 days a week but not always. I play at my local LGS on Thursday from 6-10, my Friday night play group from 5:30-10:30 and again on Saturday from 1-6. I've been doing this well over 2 years now and avg from 9 games to 12 or more depending on what decks we are running. Are there games in all those I've played that sol ring was impactful? Yes because 1 in particular I did myself which was a turn 1 sol ring into smothering tithe, and then into anointed procession. That was only 1 time out of who knows how many games I have played. I can recall more games though were there was a turn 1 sol ring has been played and turned into almost nothing. I've seen way to many more impactful things then a turn 1 sol ring.
Now I also know people over stat it because of those lurking in the shadows and a belligerent statement about my intelligence.I'll expect non the less on this part.
I am so confused. Do you not understand how much more 15 mana is over 10 mana? The discrepancy grows the further the game progresses! How is that not super lopsided? Let me take a wild guess.. 25.. nope that isn't it... 67.. nope that isn't correct either.... 2 nope that isn't correct either.. Screw it and I will guess 5 for final answer. But then again you didn't answer my question which is ok. It'll be a yes or no because aren't you ahead in mana in either scenario? Now as the game progresses does it not occur to you that a player or the other players are also ramping? Or is ramping mad progressively only for sol-ring and not the other multitudes of cards that supplant ramp?
Now on that you guys can respond, the lurkers can lurk(got to love the negative drops from them) After this post I am done and moving on away from the boogy man. So go ahead and fire away